Another 48H virtual assembly on November 5-6 to join our projects of financial alternatives – Minutes of the IX Squares Meeting about Global Week for Financial Alternatives & General Strikes

We started this meeting with updates on the Global Week for Financial Alternatives:

We just know one city (Nantes) who will participate to the RobinHoodTax March on October 29, but a lot of cities are planning activities (debates, actions) for the 5th. of November and Paris is making an efficient communication about the Transition Day.

The Kilenomics festival (2-6 November) in Ireland will provides useful lectures on the state of the financial sector and the causes behind the crisis.

Some cities are still feeling them too small and too young to organize groups and talk about global issues but other people around the squares feel the  necessity to put in common the financial proposals of the assemblies during this event in order to produce a global document.

How to make this “Week for Financial Alternatives” effective?
The main goal of the second debate was to write a call to the assemblies and organize the logistic of this Global brainstorming.

A lot of people expressed personal opinions about financial issues but the idea that to be effective in financial alternatives we have to demonstrate them working, co-ordinating campaign or experiment in which they are used was recurrent.

One person from the BitCoin team of N.Y is working on “permabank” which is their alternative currency implementation. London, Athens, Barcelona are also developing alternatives currencies and it may be useful to get more info and model a proposal on what they are trying to do.

The week for financial alternatives should be a week of action and trade in which goods are traded FOR  financial alternatives, many people should be invited to take part, with currency donated to new participants to buy and trade with.

We  require a form of global connectivity using some type of global document. This might help groups worldwide to arrive at a shared objective for implementation explaining, in clear detail, ‘how’ this crisis started and emphasis on the massive ‘failures’ of neo-liberalism, explaining the unfairness of ones who have to pay for the greed of others, (proposition to make a map that lists what constitutes each country’s version of austerity), explaining what ‘will’ happen as a  result of this crisis – decreased living standards, increased privatization of public services, cuts to public services, increase in  unemployment etc, and proposing an alternative system (augmentations to capitalism or new alternatives), examining ‘why’ politicians are not investigating solutions that will protect their populations and the function of occupy movements in doing just that!

Coming to a conclusion about this objective will also make the movement appear less reactive and more consciously pro-active.
We have to give them room to demonstrate their ideas:

We agreed to propose another 48h virtual global assembly next weekend just to talk about financial alternatives and open a pad for the call https://n-1.cc/pg/pages/view/883399, the pad for the minutes of this assembly can be here https://n-1.cc/pg/groups/554499/international-economy/

We all agreed to call all the assemblies to join the n-1 platform and share about financial issue in this “international economy” group. We opened a pad for this call https://n-1.cc/pg/pages/view/883375.

We also recognized that we have to use more the Feedbacks (Twitter, Facebook, Google…) to promote this initiatives.

Thursday there was a Skype connection organised by people in San Francisco with people from Washington DC, Zurich, Geneva, Frankfurt…

The idea was to share experiences and to have this video-conferences several times a week.

The video  didn’t work too well, but it was proposed to try free software tools, as  mumble or Bigbluebutton but meanwhile on Skype.
They coordinate the ideas via the list https://lists.takethesquare.net/mailman/listinfo/livestream

Monday the meeting will be at 9pm GMT time and there is a chat open in Skype but we need the accounts, also there is a subgroup in n-1.

This week emerged a lot of informations from United States, Spain, England, Greece and the international network in general about next convocations to General Strikes:

Athens call to a general strike on November 10, a lot of unions and institutions are yet in strike and it look like possible that they join the  first global  strike. There is a student action in UK on 09.11.11 and a major public sector union strike on 30.11.11. Oakland call for general strike on 2nd of  November http://occupyoakland.org/ and New York think about it.

We talked about our local situations (problems/forces) and share our first ideas about the concept, the contain, the duration, the date, the logistic…

Old industrial strike model has been a force (power coming from production) but not a positive one, it is negative about stopping the  production process working for the boss. By stopping people demanded justice, now we have another power coming from our connectivity which  allow us to create a new culture and vision, a way to do things.
We can combine these two forces in a historical context as today, we have to link the unions and workers who support the occupation (it is important for workers to have a voice) with the next social forum (January) and the assemblies to create a new alliance in the grass-root level and impulse an indefinite global general strike in May 15, may be using an other name than strike if spirit is different.
the general strike have to make part of the process of transition: if we build our own institutions we need the workers and qualified people to work on it, so we have to find them in their institutions (schools, hospital, factories…) and convince them to join our alternatives project, making strike in the same time: they stop their activities for the system but they work for the alternative institutions.
Example: we create “education commissions” who go to the university making actions and debate to convince student and teachers to join alternative schools, making strike in the same time, this commission have to act in this way but in an other way have also to create this alternatives, the same in the hospitals, in the transport, the media, the offices, the factories…
If we start a contest for 15M, we can invite all the squares/assemblies to work on this alternatives and try to enter in contact with a maximum of unions, workers… to convince them to stop to maintain this system since the 15M and join our alternatives projects.
We will not just stop the world, we will also build the alternative world.
Perhaps we can think up an action that each person will be able to easily see a benefit to themselves, something we haven’t tried before.
We can organize a strike to show the extent that we CAN work together now.
Talk of a general strike before we have a replacement system makes us look petulant and needy but the call can include this work on alternatives like this one https://n-1.cc/pg/pages/view/876317 

The goal was to create tools and platforms to connect the different groups who work or will work on it and write a first call but the start of the project was blocked during a big part of the debate so we didn’t have time to work on it, fortunately we obtain a consensus at the end of the assembly and will start to work on the logistic and the promotion in a next square meeting.

The last Topic was a proposal for a strike on 11.11.11 or a global brainstorming to the redaction of a global consensus.
The majority of the people considered that it was too soon to work on it especially with the calls on financial alternatives of the next week. The debate will continue on the “squares” mailing list and a website is in project and a Facebook is already working http://www.facebook.com/groups/11.11.11worldstrike/

abominable

Agostinho_Paris

AliciaC

aporia_Ireland

BJ_wales

carolina_madrid

ChessyPig_London

cronopio_madrid

Jhonny5

klondike_gbg

MC1984

magnicida_athens

marc0s

michele_lisbon

MikeK|Boston

Mikifus_bcn

Moritz_Erlangen

niel_athens

nicco_gbg

occam

OcuparLisboa

Orsan_Amsterdam

p2501

phillyhLONDON

qwebirc90585

ravi_boston

rkos

santi_madrid

seekr_boston

skep

thebicyclethief

ttsWI_Milwaukee

V_London

During the first thirty minutes we shared updates on the Global Week for financial alternatives: the RobinHoodTax march, the “People First, Not Finance” Forum and the Transition Day.

– Bordeaux (France) will participate to the Global RobinHoodTax March

– Toulouse organize a big march the 5th. and a popular diner during the night with projections/debates.

– Nantes, Poitiers and other french cities are planning actions during this day

– 4 days left before we welcome you in Nice for the People

Summit <http://www.mobilisationsg8g20.org/?lang=en>.

Here the program <http://www.mobilisationsg8g20.org/IMG/pdf/programmeG20_Eng_final.pdf> to

download where you will find every informations about these four days of demonstrations, conferences, debates and actions. We have a central place in Nice where you’ll be able to have all informations, the ex Abattoirs <http://maps.google.fr/maps?q=76+route+de+turin+nice&hl=fr&ie=UTF8&ll=43.71144,7.27664&spn=0.028291,0.084543&sll=43.717078,7.284546&hnear=76+Route+de+Turin,+06300+Nice,+Alpes-Maritimes,+Provence-Alpes-C%C3%B4te+d%27Azur&t=m&vpsrc=6&z=14>

(the ex slaughterhouse).

Please note that locations of meetings and seminars will be included in the program (on a separate sheet) distributed on site in Nice.

– [20:11] <niel_athens>

Personnally I was disconected from the general assembly of Syntagma this week, I made the proposition  last sunday but in front of few people who was not really reactives, the  violences of the last week and the new measures announced this week  from Brussels are depriming the people,  so I don’t know what they will do.

For sure they will not organize forum or marches, they don’t will send people to  nice but the group “Amesi Dimokratia” who work on alternative economies will  translate their conclusions to share it to the world and I invite all the cities to do the same.

The Transition Day can have a better succes but their is no credit unions or ethic banks in Greece, some people already take their money out of the banks but keep it with them. Sunday I will make a call to support this action.

[20:20] <@klondike_gbg>

In our assembly the idea of the tax was introduced, yet we are still too  small to be able to have workgroups and discuss non organizative issues  in the assembly

[20:21] <ChessyPig_London>

The occupation on the ground in London is not particularly  well-connected to global issues; people talk about them but the main  thrust of actual GA-agreed pronouncements are much more local, regarding  the power of corporations etc over local and national government

[20:22] <Agostinho_Paris>

In Paris the Transition Day is going on with efficient communication, and groups of people are going to Nice for sure.

[20:34] <Moritz_Erlangen>

One last update about current actions: we’re just a small assembly in  Erlangen, but we have started an action on november the 5th (in addition  to TransitionDay): PowerOfWordsDay. when is the time for non-established actions?

[22:28] <nicco_gbg>

For the 5th of November we are planning a day like the 15th with speakers  corner, direct democracy assembly, a march through town at 19 and more plans are discussed as we speak.

Avaaz is organizing an inter-squares livestream during the G20, other cities will organize financial forums during the same time and some people around the squares feel the necessity to put in common the financial proposals of the assemblies during this event in order to produce a global document.

For a start, this document can be an addition of all the “economy groups” works and can be presented during the next weeks in all the assemblies, it can open the door to the creation of new “economy groups” in the new assemblies and to global financial projects that we will coordinate during the next months.

How to call a maximum of assemblies to share their conclusions on Finance?

How to participate to this first GlobalAgora?

What methodology we can use to make it productive?

The goal of this debate was to write a call to the assemblies and organize the logistic of this Global brainstorming.

[20:39] <aporia>

Seems to me that the population in Ireland is entirely oblivious to  what is going on. Lack of education in financial matters is an issue  that is very difficult to overcome, especially as the financial sector  prides itself on complexity (usually to hide its fraudulent dealings).  There are a few exceptions to this. For example, the Kilenomics festival (2-6 november) in Ireland provides useful lectures on the state of the financial  sector and the causes behind the crisis.

Of its strength is derived from the fact that it mixes comedy with  economics. But I think we need to stress precisely what WILL happen if  we do not act together as a collective and as a people. The mainstream  media reporting of the crisis is clearly part of a broader agenda to  prevent citizens from understanding the scale of the heist that is being  perpetrated.

The idea of a global document is fantastic. Will provide a  means by which all occupations can produce a first objective –  something, in my view, that is sorely needed; both to rally support from  other sectors and to galvanise the support we have attained thus far.

Technical  point: we need live streaming and talks about ‘how’ the  crisis  started. These might be uploaded to YouTube, Facebook etc.  Important to  generate communal sensibility in regard to education and  praxis. But  it might also be worth investigating how we can work with  alternative  media outlets to get newscasts out from the ground, and to  counter the  hold the corporate media has on shaping public perceptions  of  occupation movements. More than this, we require a form of global  connectivity using some type of global  document. This might help groups  worldwide to arrive at a shared  objective for implementation –  something I feel is greatly required.  Coming to a conclusion about this  objective will also make the movement  appear less reactive and more  consciously pro-active!

We need to empower the movement as a whole by

1) explaining, in clear  detail, ‘how’ this crisis started and emphasis on the massive ‘failures’  of neoliberalism,

2) explaining the unfairness of others have to pay  for the greed of others,

3)  explanations of what ‘will’ happen as a  result of this crisis –  decreased living standards, increased  privitization of public services,  cuts to public services, increase in  unemployment etc, and

4) proposals for an alternative system (augmentations to capitalism or a new alternative),

5)  an examination of ‘why’ politicians are not investigating solutions   that will protect their populations and the function of occupy  movements  in doing just that!

[20:33] <ttsWI_Milwaukee>

A chart or a map might be helpful, for each issue. Something like  “austerity” that is hard to grasp for some people. Can we make a map  that lists what constitutes each country’s version of austerity? So we  can see better how this general problem affects us specifically

1)  A group in NYC is working on “permabank” which is their alt currency   implementation. At least one person from the BitCoin team is working on   this project. It may be useful to get more info and model a proposal  on  what they are trying to do

2)  RE: N-1, all systems have security flaws. Let’s remember to view  this  as a tool and to make sure we have alternatives that we also use

3)  We’re working on some systems to help assemblies communicate  with each  other. Something like OpenAssembly might be a good starting  point if  we want to put proposals out there and let various people vote,  offer  amendments, etc at their leisure over a window of time

[20:44] <phillyhLONDON>

I think the idea of ‘financial alternatives’ is a global constant,  something that resonates with many occupy movements, and if there is to  be a global message of solidarity, this is a great thing on which to  focus

Providing a ‘real alternative’ and possibly – most effectively – demonstrating its use

We have financial alternatives, but they are not in use. Bitcoins have  been talked about for months and months, but there is still no ‘visible’  demonstration of their use.

Is this something we could globally come to an agreement on?  Somehow? The use of an alternative non FIAT currency? Or is this far too  radical to gain popular support?

Do  we want local currencies, or do we want to roll with something   international (or webby) like bitcoins? This is very important

Whatever  we decide locally about financial alternatives, we really must  act to  implementing them, but to do so globally in a co-ordinated  fashion  would have the maximum impact

whether we use bitcoins, or a locally developed established currency, we must demonstrate their use

in  addition to this, the THINGS  we trade are important. We have to  demonstrate our innovative skills,  we have to demonstrate new novel  ideas and new modes of existence. We  really have to INSPIRE people to a  new way of life.

If  we can demonstrate that ‘the mess’ is not an ‘actual mess’ but  rather  just a financial one, they may see the potential for a much more   inviting world that’s less stressful

People  are very caught up in ‘the catastrophe’ of finance, but we if we   demonstrate a local/international working model of trade in which   everyone is invited, it would be a very powerful message.

I just want to bring attention to something interesting I found today –  it was agreed at the UN in 1992 at the Rio Earth Summit

It  is called Principle 21, and it is very simple, this is what is says:  “The creativity, ideals and courage of the youth of the world should be  mobilized to forge a global partnership in order to achieve sustainable  development and ensure a better future for all”

That’s what we’re doing.

I  agree with BJ_wales that creating a template for local  assemblies to  use is a good idea, and the sooner we can agree unified  direct action  on finance the better, because we can get people online to  campaign  like crazy and promote the day. Let people get creative, give  them room  to demonstrate their ideas

[20:45] <Moritz_Erlangen>

+ global document, + masses do not use irc

[20:57] <ChessyPig_London>

There  is a lot of suspicion in London regarding any organised groups,  such  as Avaaz – that they might hijack the proceedings for their own  ends

We’re trying to work out how to reach people so that they can participate in the global week for finanical alternatives.

Facebook and Twitter etc are  very good at reaching a lot of people that might not be able to get out  there, and also to keep in touch with people on the ground who might  have a facebook/twitter phone app or a live wall with twitter updates  but no complicated tech

We have to work out also how to make people on the ground not  suspicious of ‘global’ agendas being existing groups attempting to take  over their operations

Especially if we are linking with pre-existing organisations like Avaaz that don’t have a completely positive record

(e.g. Avaaz lost many people due to the support of alternative medicines)

I think we have to remain aware  that MOST people remain on Facebook and Twitter and to gain popular  support, we have to fight the fight there

I think the best way to be effective in financial alternatives is to demonstrate them working, so a co-ordinated campaign or experiment in which they are used would be great

The week for financial alternatives should be a week of action and trade in which goods are traded FOR financial alternatives,

Many people should be invited to take part, with currency donated to new participants to buy and trade with.

I  am worried that if we test in camps the economic model, it is  meaningless because the camps are self-selected for ‘good’ people,  motivated people, people who are not self-centered

whereas where financial alternative systems break down is when confronted with self-serving people

London  on the ground is not very well connected to the internet, so  global  stuff like n-1 is going to be very hard to spread around

People  are busy talking to each other and making personal connections  and  working on infrastructure and spreading information locally

People can just about get around to picking up email – general@occupylsx

[21:03] <Orsan_Amsterdam>

Forming a global network of popular assemblies that are ultimately  aiming to write local, national and global constitutions and laws…  (11.11.11) than use avaaz and national versions to collect signitures to  push for referandums at local and national levels (around 25-26  january/World Social Forum)  than to puch these laws towards ancient regime, political elite and coporate elite, launching a indefinite global general.

Had a time table like this

I think first we need to activate n-1

Now thinking together with financial text

We can try to link up as much aseembly as possible on n-1

And try to colloborate on some sort of common ground functioning alternative and use this as a test

We cant expact to come up a sophisticated text that can replace but can  proof that we can work it out globally via our assemblies

We need to integrate fb and twitter and google in specific functions

I think we can’t really think about finance separately from the  production and production relations: ovnership, distribution. There are  qutie new fascinating development in the fields like energy and  manifucturing – namely quantum electron pumping [free energy production]  and 3D printing both faciliates distributed peer economy model.

We need to be able to distribute first the energy and material  production and finance will be linked to this also distirbuted and freed  from state and corporate regime

Only way to think about how to link assemblies, work groups, minutes,  and dicisions is to think about the functions of N-1 around this goal  and adopt them.

Trying to connect assembblies on n-1 and adopt tools to create a common text on this specific issue

I did not get votes for trying to promote N-1 as a network where we can  test collective work for creating alternative economic and monetery  vision: tihs can be for instance Decommodification of major elements of  life: time, labour, earth [inc. forests], water, fire [oil] and air  {CO2]. Than genes, ideas, friendships, etc. we need to decommodify these  social and natural elements, than public servces, money so on..

Drag all the assembly can be coordinated by international coordination guys and report them back to the assembly this can go much faster i think.

[21:14] <santi_madrid>

We have a lot of possible alternatives for reform. For example, in my  opinion it has more to do with decentralization, more towards local  currencies.

But what I think is important here is that these are not our calls now.  We have to propose alternatives and pass them through occupations,  assemblies, their networks, broadcasting centers etc.

In this group there are already enough people to move proposals through their own occupations, work groups

That was where I was going to! I think the idea of a Bank Transfer day,  week or month. We should put the idea into practice, find legitmation  in assemblies and promote this type of action. Then when we have a model  for administration, finances, enviornment etc. we have the legitimation  system in place.

[21:17] <BJ_wales>

A  global template , with local currencies? perhaps labour based.  dissemination of publicity : any and every means to hand 🙂

[21:25] <manuel_madrid>

I think we are playing other people game

I mean we talk about economy, because this is what they tell us is possible to talk about but we do not need to follow their speechs are we are not representing countries here, as far as I know

So, we are just people from many countries trying to work up together  something, why then to follow them, protest against them, and the like we have to see if we are in a different position to see things and depart from it

[21:51] <+MOD_niel_athens>

PULL TO WRITE A CALL TO INVITE THE ASSEMBLIES TO USE N-1 (APPROVED)

SO WE WRITE A CALL TO PARTICIPATE TO THIS 48H, THE PAD FOR THE MINUTES CAN BE HERE https://n-1.cc/pg/groups/554499/international-economy/ WITH AN INVITATION TO USE N-1 AND SHARE IN THIS GROUP THEIR FINANCIAL WORK

[21:56] <carolina_madrid>

I can open a pad

We can have another 48h virtual global assembly just to talk about financial alternatives

48h assembly its open space where people can join whenever they want, the time they want, during those 48h everybody knows that in the net people its talking about one topic and they can participate

Yesterday there was a skype connection organised by people in SF_US (I think), there was people from washington dc, zurinch, geneva, frankfurt and the idea was to share experiences and to have this videoconfereces several times a week

Video didnt work too well, but I proposed to try free software tools, as mumble, or bigbluebutton but meanwhile its on skype so to coordinate the idea its to use the list https://lists.takethesquare.net/mailman/listinfo/livestream

Monday the meeting its at 9pm GMT time there is a chat open in skype but we need the accounts, also there is a subgroup in n-1

Call to assemblies to use n-1 https://n-1.cc/pg/pages/view/883375

48h brainstorming about financial alternatives https://n-1.cc/pg/pages/view/883399

WE CLOSE THIS TOPIC: CARO WILL OPEN A PAD, IN THIS PAD WE WILL WRITE A CALL ADRESSED TO THE ASSEMBLIES  INVITING THEM TO USE N-1 AND SHARE THEIR WORK IN THE INTERNATIONAL  ECONOMY GROUP, WE WILL ALSO INVITE THEM IN THE 48H BRAINSTORMING ABOUT  FINANCIAL ALTERNATIVES NEXT WEEK.

This week emerged a lot of informations from United States, Spain, England and the international network in general about next convocations to General Strikes.

Today we have the opportunity to make this strikes crossing the border and the limits of times.

Some people talk about November, other about 25th. of March, other about 1st. of May or 15 but the idea is common.

This was the first debate on this amazing project and the minutes is historical.

We talked about our local situations (problems/forces), and the goal was to create tools and platforms to connect the differents groups who work or will work on it, and share our first ideas about the concept, the contain, the duration, the date, the logistic…

The agenda of this topic was:

1. Local situations / contacts

– Athens call to a general strike on November 10

[22:31] <thebicyclethief>

Student action in UK on 09.11.11 and major public sector union strike on 30.11.11

There are some connections i believe like counterfire, coalition of resistance.

[22:33] <+MOD_niel_athens> LIKE WORKING GROUP, MAILING LISTS, COMMON ASSEMBLIES…?

[22:34] <thebicyclethief> sorry no but there are big protests

[23:01] <orsan_amsterdam>

Oackland calls for general strike on 2nd  of  november would greece support this, there is UK general strike at the  end of november can we link them to the decisions coming out from the  occupations any one think from greece, uk or US?

[23:21] <seekr_boston>

http://occupyoakland.org/ – has details of tomorrow’s strike on the front page – last time I looked

[23:54] <qwebirc90585>

OWS is gathering momentum

[22:34] <+MOD_niel_athens>

In  athens we make a lot of strike and a lot of unions  and institutions  are yet in strike since a long time, they are planning  next general  strike and I’m sure that they will be happy to join the  first global  strike, the problem is that they are not united, political  parties,  syndicates, associations divides the people

2. Platforms we can create to link this informations / contacts

We didn’t have time to abord this topic

3. First debate about the contain

[22:38] <ChessyPig_London>

Strike action is very associated with unions, which are associated with  old / discredited left wing, Labour party which has betrayed country  etc, also Armistice Day is sacrosanct – 11/11 – must be very careful not to do anything that seems disrespectful.

The movement here is carefully not radical, because to be radical in that way would alienate most of the populace and actually most of the populace has common cause against the bank  bailouts and the 1% and the financial services markets and corporate  domination of politics and we want to reach them, not alienate them; to show them there is a better way. Strike action, attempting to take over days which are important for other reasons, is not going to achieve this.

[22:40] <manuel_madrid>

Very similar opinion as Chessy, I do not think that a general strike is our “task”.

This is always relative to a country, for some given reason

[22:40] <+MOD_niel_athens> THE AGENDA SAY HOW TO CONNECT THE GROUPS WHO WORK ON IT, NO HOW TO ORGANIZE IT

[22:40] <manuel_madrid> A global general strike, does not make sense to me.

I would like to repeat what I said before in wrong place. We assuming the speeches of the politicians, we are not politicians, we do not represent countries, we have not necessarily to oppose others, we have to use our global vision to clear many things from another point of view.

We do not want to make history, because history always dissapoints, we want to finisht with history therefore it is not a bout capitalism or other ism, it is about to think globally something states representatives will not do.

[22:57] <BJ_wales> very  deep : manuel_madrid, but we are all politicians , if anyone is. and we  stand for our beliefs, perhaps family, country religon.

[23:03] <manuel_madrid> History is to me, time of war among human empires going up and down, force ruling, nothing good out of it, but now we can communicate all at the same  time, why to use force? Therefore, we are at a different point, we shall  use, instead of going on impossing, opposing and fighting, sorry, I do not think this is the place for that discussion, just pass.

[22:42] <orsan_amsterdam>

We are trying to create a new generation unions, they share the same principles as assemblies. We have made a call like this: We invite all the popular assemblies  around the world to start writing people’s laws that are deccomodifying  all about social and natural life, getting life out from the grip of  greed, capital, corporations, elite and make them pay back what they  stole from humanity.  Join assemblies, join forces, join us,  in our facebook group:  http://www.facebook.com/groups/11.11.11worldstrike/  and call for a global strike which is different in spirit.

For a social structure free from classes, states, borders, work, money,  war and based on the commons we share… Join the world wide strike and  global demo on 11.11.11!  We are reclaiming life !   4 Hour-Work-Day and Global Basic Income now and for all!  ALL 4 ONE ONE 4 ALL

This was a separate thing before the asemblies formed, now it is approaching nicely there mihgt be link but not necessary.

There are two separate things occupations and assemblies, demand for  systemic chage and economic/finacial crisis bringing about mass  strikes… there were initiatives towards this direction calling for  european or global strikes, before the assemblies arrived and  occupations real UNION of peoples, and in parallel now in oackland,  greece, uk we have demands that are going beyond industrial relations,  wages etc, we can link, so if momentum comes i think we can create a new generation strikes for life, more living time, or decommodfying water, air, money, etc, new kind of strikes that are combined with hacks, or other sort of creative expressions than we can continue to do that, embedd in occupation or assembly work to push for our demands, or laws.

Old industrial strike model has been a force -power coming from  production- but not a positive one, it is negative about stopping the  production process working for the boss etc.by stopping people demanded  justice, now we have another power coming from our connectivity which  allow us to create new culture, and vision, and a way to do things.. we can combine these two forces in a historical context as today.

4 hour idea is about freeing life time from bosses and create a space to produce that new world. If we can link working people who support the occupations for stirkes we can create a new alliance on the grassroot level, unions would not fit as old style organisatoins, would it be about thinking around a strategic time line like this: forming a global network of popular assemblies that are ultimately  aiming to write local, national and global constitutions and laws…  (11.11.11) than use avaaz and national versions to collect signitures to  push for referandums at local and national levels (around 25-26  january/World Social Forum)  than to puch these laws towards ancient regime, political elite and coporate elite, launching a indefinite global general than it fits in a different approach.

[22:43] <Moritz_Erlangen>

Maybe use new/other name than ‘strike’ if spirit different?

[22:45] <aporia>

One thing none of us are clear on is how radical the movement is:  whether we want to tweak the system as it stands – even though it is  entirely unsustainable, in my view – or whether we want to create a new  system. Seems to me there is not a lot of clarity on this point. Some  people like M. Moore have claimed that the movement is anti-capitalist.  But some commentators appear to believe that with some small reforms we  can return the capitalist model back decent level of economic efficiency. I personally think we need to  concentrate on ideas toward a new political economy, and this can only  be done when we concentrate on diagnosing the failures of the current  system we live under. Only after we have done this can we talk about new  relations of exchange, currencies, and the structural principles of a  different / more humane political economy.

I have to take issue wit what manuel said. I understand that we are  here to provide a new vision, but surely we can only do this by citing  what we are against? It is one thing to say that ‘this is not about  capitalism’ but surely that is a reductive or negatory analysis?  And  surely this dispossesses those who suffer under such an economic model?  To my mind we are discussing capitalism whether from the point of view  of augmenting it, or from the point of moving beyond it.

I agree that panegyrics about the brutality of capitalism will only  last so long, and that we must posit solutions. BUT, we must also  diagnose what precisely has gone wrong in the past. We are historical  creatures, after all.

History is that. And it is more besides. But we aim to ‘make’ history  by moving beyond ageing paradigms. My point is that it is impossible to  move forward without diagnosing or at least proffering a corrective to  the mistakes of the present – and that this can only occur when we  analyse the myriad mistake made in the past. That is why we need to  investigate capitalism itself, as I think Orsan is encouraging us to do.  Otherwise we persistently fail to present an idea that is sustainable and free of error.

How  precisely would we be killing public support by calling for strike  action? The fact is that people are living below the poverty line. These  people can only take so much. And as wages decrease – which they will –  further violence will become the norm. Strikes are never pleasant, but I  think it is important for workers to have a voice. I honestly think we  should be encouraging just this type of action.

[22:59] <NingunOtro_Bruss>

I completely agree with both last comments of aporia:

We have too many people looking at the situation with the same old  glasses as ever… the ones propaganda (whether political or economic)  has pushed us to use.

When you analyse the facts from an old and wrong viewpoint… all you get as a result is garbage.

That is why we still do not know how to act or what to do.

Manuel points into a good direction… but I believe it is not really that important to recall what happened… but to try to understand WHY it had to happen.

[22:47] <BJ_wales>

Many problems are from words used : ‘union’ is what all assemblies are, ‘strike’ is not working, maybe going to occupy ..?

The system is broken : re : aporia , and needs replacing not repairing

[23:02] <thebicyclethief>

Decommodfification of social/natural life is a very ambitious goal … probably unrealisitic … possibly dangerous.

C_P M_M depends on the demands which could be decided on the platform  … the object of our anger (the banks, Capital etc.) is theirs too or  it will be very soon.

[23:15] <+MOD_niel_athens>

I think that the general strike have to make part of the process of transition: if we build our own institutions we need the workers and qualified  people to work on it, so we have to find them in their institutions  (schools, hospital, factories…) and convince them to join our  alternatives project, making strike in the same time, they stop their activities for the system but they work for the alternative institution.

Example: we create “education commission” who go to the university  making actions and debate to convaince student and teachers to join  alternative schools, making strike as facto, this commission have to act in this way but in an other way have also to create this alternatives, the same in the hospitals, in the transport, the medias, the offices, the factories…

If we start a contest for 15M, we can invite all the squares/assemblies  to work on this alternatives and try to enter in contact with a maximum  of unions, workers… to convaince them to stop to maintain this system  since the 15M and join our alternatives projects in the same time.

We will not just stop the world, we will also build the alternative world.

[23:25] <aporia>  There seems to be some misunderstanding about how much time we have  here. Let’s not forget that the EU is setting about creating a fiscal  union – one that, once created, will be difficult to repeal. Also, the  IMF’s austerity policies intend to wreak havoc on all western economies,  reducing living standards and expropriating wealth to the top of the  economic ladder. SO, do we really have time to set up ‘education  commissions’? Another problem which we are discussing: what happens when world economies lapse into depression? Do  we have a gameplan for this, or do we simply play it as it comes?

[23:24] <BJ_wales>  you would build a new society before the old one is gone? The old would  devour the embryo of the new , surely – then all is lost !?

[23:25] <+MOD_niel_athens>  ! IF WE INVITE THE PEOPLE WHO MAINTAIN THE OLD ONE TO BUILD THE NEW IN A  GENERAL STRIKE WE WILL KILL THE OLD IN THE SAME TIME

[23:29] <NingunOtro_Bruss>  +1 to aporia; I believe one of the reasons our N-1 network is not that  much apreciated is because niel always pushes his far too radical views  onto it, and it makes too many people stay away. Sorry I have to say  this.

[23:31] <aporia>  “IF WE INVITE THE PEOPLE WHO MAINTAIN THE OLD ONE TO BUILD THE NEW IN A  GENERAL STRIKE WE WILL KILL THE OLD IN THE SAME TIME”: That  is a dangerous assumption to make. If you invite the old to build the  new model, they will find ways of reinitiating their monopoly on the  new. Simple.

[23:33] <+MOD_niel_athens> ! APORIA, THE NEW WILL BE BUILD WITH OUR CONCEPTS: HORIZONTALITY, TRANSPARENCY, CONSENSUS…

[23:33] <+MOD_niel_athens> THIS IS OUR PROTECTION

[23:34] <ChessyPig_London> two things: first I worry about our ability to implement any of this, right now we have, in London, about 500 people on the ground (more transiently but about that steadily) they are still working out internet connections, water, sanitation also they are still widely discredited in the media and the ordinary man on the street doesn’t even know about them. The only thing we can do at this stage is engage with the public, engage with each other

[23:35] <+MOD_niel_athens> ! WE HAVE 8 MONTH FOR THIS PROJECT 🙂

[23:35] <ChessyPig_London> grand plans are great for enthusiasm-building but we are not in a position to deliver on them yet and it is so easy to kill any hope of public support by going for  strike actions and declaring our grand visions and looking out of touch and looking like anti-capitalists or dreamers or hippies. We need to be so careful to keep away from those labels until we have demonstrated that it is their movement too.

Secondly: it is very easy to knock things down and very hard to build them up, it is very easy to say this is bad and very hard to build something good, we must be careful not to fall into the trap that all old revolutions have fallen into.

Where we knock things down and then discover that what we have just built is fatally flawed like USSR communism and the French Revolution and Cromwell and so on and so on…

[23:27] <ttsWI_Milwaukee>

I agree with orsan and niel to some extent. It’s understandable that  strikes and unions have negative connotations in some cultures and that  we need to find a new way in the future. For now a strike may still be  the best option for the majority.

There is the same problem at local and international levels, whether we  are organizing a strike or some other action: people think of  themselves (not saying this is wrong)

It’s very hard to get people to think about others when their own  children are starving. Perhaps we can think up an action that each  person will be able to easily see a benefit to themselves. Something we  haven’t tried before.

So can we organize a strike to show the extent that we CAN work  together now, and then use its momentum to create and organize something  right after?

[23:52] <MC1984>

Movement hasnt had the traction in the UK that it has in america, the screws havent come down far enough yet for a general strike and i see signes people are starting to wake up over it in britain though,  the st pauls situation has been rather fortuitous in the end.

[23:39] <+MOD_niel_athens>

NO MORE TURN, I PROPOSE A POLL TO SEE IF THE PEOPLE THINK USEFUL TO  START THIS KIND OF PROJECT AND IF WE APPROVE WE WILL TALK JUST ABOUT HOW  TO INICIATE PLATFORMS

[23:40] <thebicyclethief> +

[23:40] <orsan_amsterdam> +

[23:41] <+MOD_niel_athens> +

[23:41] <ChessyPig_London> –

[23:41] <manuel_madrid> –

[23:42] <+MOD_niel_athens>  CHESSY CAN YOU RESUM IN A SHORT SENTENCE YOUR AGUMENT AGAINST THE  CREATION OF A PLATFORM TO LINK PEOPLE WHO WORK ON A GLOBAL STRIKE?

[23:42] <+MOD_niel_athens> SAME FOR MANUEL PLEASE (YOU SAID BEFORE THAT YOU WAS NOT FOR BUT YOU DON’T BLOCK IT)

[23:43] <ChessyPig_London>  It is too early for a global strike – too many of the general populace  have still bought into the myth that working hard will get you into the  1% – we need to break that myth before we go for things like strike  action or risk losing them forever

[23:44] <manuel_madrid> I am not blocking it, I just would prefer not to talk more about it, I understood that was your question actually

[23:44] <+MOD_niel_athens> DO YOU UNDERSTOOD THAT THIS STRIKE IS NOT FOR NOW BUT FOR MAY 2012?

[23:44] <V_London> Exactly Chessy thats why a global crash is NEEDED

[23:45] <thebicyclethief> a global crash is likely imo … that will bring a lot of ppl to their senses … talk could continue on the platform

[23:45] <ChessyPig_London>  I am not convinced any of us will even recognise the world as it is in  May 2012 – but starting to organise this kind of thing nails our  colours to the mast and will make people suspicious of us / confirm  their belief that we are lazy and do not want to work or contribute

[23:46] <seekr_boston> + for strike motion – sorry – i was distracted

[23:47] <ChessyPig_London>  Yes. But if we are caught organising for strike action, it will harden  the hearts of those we haven’t reached yet against us

[23:48] <aporia>  So, you instead like to indulge the myth that everything is going to be  alright? Surely a global strike would send a message – much needed at  this point – that the 99% are not going to be manipulated by the 1% and  REFUSE to accept the burden of  debt that they are being UNDEMOCRATICALLY forced to accept!?  You  are too concerned with perceptions. I am concerned with the actual  reality of things. The belief that people who go on strike are lazy is  nothing. Tory propaganda. And I think we all know that.  I  therefore see no reason as to why we should not join forces with those  who are being crushed in this crisis. Surely solidarity means something?

[23:51] <ChessyPig_London>  Talk of a general strike before we have a replacement system makes us  look petulant and needy; like we are threatening to throw our toys out  of the pram; like we don’t understand that people need to work to make  things happen; like we want to be handed everything

People massively underestimate the scale of the task of producing a  replacement system, especially as we don’t even have 50% public support it plays directly into the hands of those who want to dismiss the movement as just the Old Left having another tantrum of being unrealistic and breaking things instead of creating them.

[23:52] <+MOD_niel_athens> THE CALL CAN INCLUDE THIS CALL TO THE REMPLACEMENT PLAN LIKE IN THIS CALL https://n-1.cc/pg/pages/view/876317

[23:56] <michele_lisbon> actually right now I see strikes everywhere: italy, portugal, greece, something also in france. I think the proposal is simply to try to coordinate this and do it the same day and maybe try to generalize the idea of strike to include unemployed and precarious maybe we should not fix a date yet but I think a lot of people will be joining the world general strike 😉

[23:58] <ChessyPig_London> Places having high strike action are also having high unemployment; everyone’s unemployment is increasing, can we do something productive with the unemployed? Can we work on setting up new productive things so we can say – look – there is another way to work, these people that the old way threw on the scrap-heap are doing it and _then_ we can say ‘these are better, come join us’

[23:59] <ttsWI_Milwaukee> The idea of a strike is to “stop the machine.” No one said we can’t use this time to build a new one

[23:59] <ChessyPig_London> but I’m saying we need to spin up our own machine rather than stopping the old one with our spanners, we need to demonstrate that the new way works, then the old machine  will spin down of its own accord / we can put spanners in the bits that  are specifically trying to stamp out our new ways

[00:00] <ttsWI_Milwaukee> ! Strikes take a lot of preparation. It makes sense that we would be building something new during preparations

[00:01] <ChessyPig_London>  but without the demonstration that we can do something productive, that  we can create, that we can do something new, that we don’t need the old  ways, then strikes just seem negative and disconnect people – unlink  them, as manuel said

[00:01] <aporia>  Chessy: There is nothing petulant about people striking because their  lives are being decimated and their wages suppressed to look after a  wealthy banking and corporate cartel.  It is only right for  people to strike if they feel their way of life is under threat. We  passed the biggest welfare cheque in history to the banking sector. It  is this cheque that  is the very definition of “laziness.”

[00:01] <ChessyPig_London>  You don’t need to convince _me_ – you need to convince the people I  talk to every day who think the movement is irrelevant because it has no  solutions

[00:02] <aporia>  Therefore there simply is not enough time to work out a new economic  ecology and to see it tested before the system collapses. We need to be absolutely honest about this. As for the corporate media and its perception management: you are  correct that strikes create a problem in this regard. But we will always  be named ‘lazy’ when we do actually strike, regardless if we build a  long campaign to that moment

[00:03] <ChessyPig_London>  So surely that means we should concentrate on building the  alternative, rather than thinking of ways to tear it down faster?

[00:03] <+MOD_niel_athens>  CHESSY THE BRITISH MOVEMENT IS VERY YOUNG AND DIDN’T BUIL A LOT OF  THINGS, BUT IN BARCELONA FOR EXAMPLE THEY HAVE THEIR OWN CURRENCIES,  THEIR OWN UNIVERSITIES, ITINERANT HOSPITAL, COLLECTIVE TRANSPORT… LOOK  AT THE HOLISTIC COOPERATIVE OF CATALUNYA THAT CAN INSPIRE A LOT OF  CITIES

[00:05] <ChessyPig_London> So surely that means we should  concentrate on building the alternative, rather than thinking of ways to  tear it down faster? WHY IT WOULD BE INCOMPATIBLE?

[00:06] <ChessyPig_London>  It would be incompatible because doing the strike action will put off  many people who could be engaged in building the alternative

[00:06] <+MOD_niel_athens> THE STRIKE IS IN MAY CHESSY, THE WORK IS NOW, ALL THE ASSEMBLY ARE CREATED TO MAKE THAT THE PEOPLE FIND ALTERNATIVES NO? BUT NOT JUST TALK ABOUT IT, START TO ORGANIZE IT NO? IN MAY I HOPE THAT THE NEW ASSEMBLIES WILL  JOIN THE LEVEL OF AVANCEMENT THAN BARCELONA, MADRID OR AMESI DIMOKRATIA HAVE

[00:06] <ChessyPig_London> But the press getting their hands on any declaration we make is now – they can discredit us now. I am 100% for organising alternative systems. I am not for organising a  general strike. It is too early. Maybe it is not too early in your  country but it is too early to speak of it here.

[00:08] <+MOD_niel_athens> SO YOU ARE READY TO BLOCK A GLOBAL PROJECT BECAUSE NOW AND IN YOUR LOCALITY YOU DON’T FEEL IT?

[00:08] <orsan_amsterdam> Than we need to design a global strike that wont behave in that way, where it is necessary

[00:09] <ChessyPig_London>  Yes. It won’t be global if not everyone’s locality feels it. It will  distance us and impede the ability of the Occupy movement to gain  momentum and implement those alternatives

[00:09] <aporia>  Niels is correct. We are calling for strike action in the future, not  tomorrow morning. In which case, we have ample time to make our case for  a new economic vision, even in skeletonal form. But in actual fact,  strike action is about sending a message to the 99%, it is not about  taking multiple days off work. A single day of strike action or a week  will send the necessary signal that the population will not accept the  deal that has been dealt to them. That seems reasonable to me.

[00:11] <ChessyPig_London> Strike action sends the signal that we are just like the old left, Strike action sends the signal that we are arrogent and entitled, Striek action sends the signal that the rest of the 99% might as well  switch off because we are not for them, we are not constructive, we are  nothing new, we are just the same old same old.

[00:11] <+MOD_niel_athens> DO YOU THINK THAT ALL THE PRESENT AND PAST STRIKER WAS JUST ARROGANT? ENTITLED?

[00:12] <ChessyPig_London> No, but I think that many recent strikers have been public sector pension strikers when the private sector has much worse pension deals even than their new ones

[00:12] <+MOD_niel_athens>  AND IF WE HAVE ALREADY SOLUTIONS? NOT IN ENGLAND MAYBE BUT IN OTHER LOCALITIES, AND IF THIS LOCALITIES  EXCHANGE THEIR SOLUTIONS YOU DON’T THINK THAT’S IT’S THE WAY?

[00:13] <ChessyPig_London>  I think we should be working on positive action, on making  alternatives, on growing wide-spread support, not on ‘making a  statement’ which will be taken the wrong way by many, not on breaking  things down, not on smashing the old machine. We don’t need to smash it, it is broken already, let people migrate naturally from the old to the new.

[00:14] <+MOD_niel_athens> SO YOU ARE AGREE TO INVITE THEM TO MAKE THIS MIGRATION?

[00:14] <ChessyPig_London> But not on a specific date, and not calling it ‘strike action’, strike action is what you do when you want to negotiate. we don’t want to negotiate, we want to replace.

[00:15] <+MOD_niel_athens> AND WE TOLD BEFORE TO CHANGE THE CONCEPT OF STRIKE, MAY BE THE NAME, IT WILL BE MORE A TRANSITION PROJECT

[00:16] <seekr_boston>  I think ChessyPig has a point – one of the strongest and most  persistent criticisms of Occupy has been its lack of a focussed set of  demands.  While I know we don’t have to concede too readily  to such pressure, if we intend to put together something we call a  strike action, we must at least have a well-constructed… set of objectives and a way to articulate them to a public that still isn’t sure it buys our methods.

[00:18] <ttsWI_Milwaukee>  We have a lot of public support already, without “demands.” However it  is good to discuss that we could emphasize the alternatives more. We are not demanding the system do anything but go away (which will be  the message of our “strike”). We are ASKING our neighbors to join us in  creating a new thing. Media wants to see anger, signs, blood. We have to work extra hard to show that we are making a community. So on the one hand I am asking, how can we be more inviting to the  people around us? At first we have to focus on people who might join if  they only knew more, and find direct communication pathways to those  groups. On the other hand, assuming we can find a “strike” that is agreeable to  everyone, this sort of thing takes a lot of planning and preparation  (sorry if I repeat myself).

Public workers in the US also get a lot of criticism because they are  perceived as “better off” than everyone else. That doesn’t have anything  to do with our global situation.

Public and private sector must work together. They are being pitted against each other by the 1%

[00:23] <aporia>  Chessy: Several points: 1) what is wrong with the ‘old left’ precisely?  I can’t see what you are getting at here. 2) public sector pensions are  being ransacked by governments so as to pay off the black whole of debt  created by the banking sector. That this sector ‘had’ better pensions  is merely a sign that this sector is better at defending its ‘rights’  against a rabid freemarket fundamentalism 3) the Hutton report has made  the case that pubic sector pen in the UK are affordable and yet they are still being reduced and  ageing workers are being forced to work longer – is this fair? 4) you  think it is arrogant for strikers to strike in order to keep them above  the economic fray? I imagine that many do not have an option when it  comes to taking such action, especially as the government refuses to  debate with them in any meaningful manner. You seem to want to go  ‘softly into that good night’ and create chang before the collapse. I personally do not think that we have the time to  engage this strategy. Also, the change is ‘now’ and our general  assemblies provide the model for direct democratic engagement. The  longer we wait the more time the financial elite has to manipulate the  movement. Moreover, instead of trying to court the corporate media we  must see it as part of the cancer.

[00:24] <+MOD_niel_athens> CHESSY DO YOU STILL BLOCK THE PROJECT? THINK THAT YOU CAN TAKE THE REST AND JUST DON’T PARTICIPATE 🙂

[00:25] <ChessyPig_London>  I block anything which is a Global Strike – I don’t block a ‘transition  process’ that focusses on having an alternative infrastructure in place  and then moving to it, in fact that sounds quite good

[00:26] <+MOD_niel_athens> DO YOU BLOCK TO THE CREATION OF A GLOBAL PLATFORM OF COMMUNICATION/CORRDINATION ABOUT THIS ISSUE?

[00:26] <ChessyPig_London> no; I think I’ve now raised my concerns and they will be taken into consideration, so I don’t block that

[00:27] <+MOD_niel_athens> OK THANKS WE HAVE A CONCENSUS! WE DON’T HAVE TIME TO TALK ABOUT HOWTO AND ABOUT A CALL, IN A NEXT MEETING…

4. First shot for a global call

We didn’t have time to abord this topic

The below call made by GAIA for launching a global indefinite strike on 11.11.11, for more life/less work time and basic income for all. This can be thoght in link to previous agenda item and on discussed in relation to the 2 November general strike call from Oackland. Since it is about both 11.11.11 and global general strike/direct action/hack idea.. this is the source:

For a social structure free from classes, states, borders, work, money, war and based on the commons we share…Join the world wide strike and global demo on 11.11.11!

We are reclaiming life !

4 Hour-Work-Day and Global Basic Income now and for all!

ALL 4 ONE ONE 4 ALL

if there is no extreemly good momentum, and/or not ienough time for such stirke on 11.11.11:

The other idea for that date can be inviing all occupations/ camps/squares/assemblies around the world to N-1 to use it as a platformm for exchange and networking. If we can achieve to gather key assemblies on that and can prepare to launch the N-1 pages as a global social network for the assemblies that would be fantastic meme for the future. Ithink we can use People’s Assemblies Network Page to tidy core information sharing among the assemblies! and to the outside world

another idea can be to think of a time table which would bring different kind of actions in a strategical line, so several ideas can be linked up together in a roll like this:

      15 Oktober – Occupation

• forming a global network of popular assemblies that are ultimately aiming to write local,  national and global constitutions and laws… (11.11.11) uniffication

• prepare the laws until end january, than use avaaz and national petition groups to collect signitures to push for referandums at local and national levels for these laws that are changing the fundementals of the system (around 25-26 january/World Social Forum)  –   alteration

• than to push these laws towards ancient regime, political elite and coporate elite, launching a         indefinite global general strike with a global mobilisation (15 May) –  r(e)volution

We have received some messages in our mailing list regarding a call for acting together on the 11/11/11. The call has not been clearly explained, but the proposal is there and, indeed, the date is quite appealing.

Even if the time left is short the 11.11.11 date make sense for the call purpose; as all the numbers there are “one” and the “one” is the first number, we can used that day to make a call for a new beginning for humanity, a beginning of unity instead of opposition as, no doubt, the way to solve our problems is to face them together.

If we are together we will not need to produce and maintain armies and also we can rationalize much better our resources.

We can use that day mainly to spread that consideration about world unity and commitment to put our effort to give a form to it, and we go to the streets to show this commitment calling everyone to join an open debate on this and about how to proceed towards this aim. Our purpose is to put this question into the world table in an open, transparent and equal manner.

1.       We can show this with a logo for the day; one world, one heart, for instance, later we can open a concurs…

2.       We invite everybody to contribute with ideas, speeches, and other contributions to that aim that day, which will be recorded into a web site opened for that purpose.

3.       This web site will be always improved and growing in usefulness as a mean for our world progressive communication, understanding and cooperation.

4.       This site is based in equality, horizontality and no-violence.

5.       If we are able to, we can use that site to immediately act addressing conflicts and emergency situation from goodwill of the people, I mean, while we have not a world decision system ready.

6.       Etc.

[00:31] <thebicyclethief>

11.11.11 is not a good date for UK and too soon and after 5N

[00:36] <@klondike_gbg>

Sadly 11-11-11 looks too far in the future, we still need to see how 5N turns out here before we can do anything else.

If this proposal has to be ratified by various GAs, the date is very very soon. Also FSCONS is being held here starting this day so I’d expect most of our tech team there volunteering instead. Yet I’m going to propose it

[00:39] <ChessyPig_London>

I love the ideas that the first project is meant to be about, but I  believe I’ve already made my opinion quite clear on nearby strikes 😉 I do think we need a lot of global coordination work; that is why I  really like Manuel’s idea and the ‘alternative idea’ in the first  proposal as thebicyclethief sais, 11/11/11 whilst a lovely significant date  clashes badly with everything which is going on in London and also a  very important social date.

Armistice Day is a big thing among the very demographic that we most  need to court and will be hardest to court – the actual everyday working  class people of Britain and there is student protest action we are already supporting on the  9th and another action we are supporting on the 30th, as well as a very  big demo to conicide with the Lord Mayor’s Parade on the 12th, we could put forwards a proposal that we should contribute art etc to  Manuel’s site for 11/11/11 – we could do stuff online, we could get the  online activists on board with it – but the people on the ground will be  too busy with the vitally important Lord Mayor’s Parade-related demo.

[00:43] <aporia>

I submit that if we have no intention on working toward near-term  strikes that we should at least set out a strategy to work alongside  unions. Encourage discussion with unions. Listen to their grievances and  factor them into our own analyses. We need to interface more on this  regard. I therefore agree with Chessy – as it turns out – that immediate  strike in November might be too soon. Moreover, immediate action is  somewhat obscured by other protests which planned in the UK. Chessyhas alluded to these already.

[00:49] <thebicyclethief>

Launching a website and a symbolic launch yes … 4 hrs strike no …  and i agree manuel the lines at the top of the proposal seem formulaic  and out of touch with rest of it

[00:34] <manuel_madrid>

I  wrote that proposal yesterday from “We have received some  messages……And today Orsan had added those lines on top, I guess it  was a previous project of his.

I  do not see it is the same project so, they should not been dealed  together and thought those lines are above, I my proposal first

I  think the meaning of the day can not  be meet by another one,   specially as our way of put the dates are  different in different   countries, therefore, we could quietly launch  the proposal that day,  or  symbiolically, and develop a site with this  idea always in progess  because to launch a web and to take a symbolic  picture of the day and   launchin of the project would be enough. Would  you be for it?

The proposal is to launch a call for global cooperation, for unity, for  working together and launching a web site on that on that date

[00:53] <+MOD_niel_athens> N-1?

[00:54] <manuel_madrid> It can be, if it has the tools for further, strong development. I think so

[00:54] <ChessyPig_London> !N-1 isn’t very public-facing or polished – we need a ‘face’ website with guides etc to ease people into it

[00:55] <+MOD_niel_athens> HOWTOOCCUPY?

[00:55] <manuel_madrid> yes, and we can link it with n-1

[00:55] <+MOD_niel_athens> TAKETHESQUARE.NET?

[00:55] <+MOD_niel_athens> WE HAVE A GROUP IN N-1 HOWTO CAMP

[00:55] <+MOD_niel_athens> FROM THIS GROUP WE CREATED HOWTOCAMP.INFO

[00:55] <+MOD_niel_athens> AND HOWTOOCCUPY.INFO

[00:56] <manuel_madrid> it is not that, it can be unity link, a new one, we have to work on it, not everything is already thought

[00:57] <ChessyPig_London> takethesquare.net is good, but not very well known

[00:57] <manuel_madrid> or shall we specify it now?

But takethesquare has already another given purpose, just unity maybe?

[01:01] <ChessyPig_London>  My proposal: an 11/11/11 unity website which is only having a little  content of its own, but is a portal to all the other many websites the  movement has created, a directory, there are a lot of different websites and online communities and so on  that have sprung up and they are all disconnected from each other;  having a portal page with a recognisable and easily spread theme will  help draw people back together and make them aware of corners of the  movement they were not previously aware of.

[01:03] <+MOD_niel_athens> BUT N-1 JOIN ALL THIS OFFICIAL WEBSITES LIKE HERE https://n-1.cc/pg/pages/view/604897

[01:03] <ChessyPig_London>  MOD_niel_athens: that is just not true; for one thing N-1 has a  cluttered interface so people cannot easily and clearly use it; for  another it is just not known about at all in London, and probably also  elsewhere

[01:03] <+MOD_niel_athens> WITH THE CALL WE WILL WRITE THIS WEEKEND WE WILL HELP THIS INITIATIVE 🙂

N-1 WAS CREATED FOR THIS MOVEMENT AND WE CAN COLLABORATE EASILY WITH THE DESIGNER

[01:05] <ChessyPig_London> the 11/11/11 site should be inviting and beautiful, rather than a very functional comms / backend development like N-1, they serve different purposes

[01:05] <+MOD_niel_athens> BUT IF YOU HAVE CONTACTS TO MAKE SOMETHING BETTER JUST SHARE IT

[01:05] <ChessyPig_London> MOD_niel_athens: takethesquare.net is a lot more inviting and beautiful than the N-1 pages, but it competes with occupytogether and has baggage… (also, this  discussion appears to have broken out into a standard IRC discussion  rather than a moderated chat, sorry)