We started the X squares meeting with updates on the global week for financial alternatives:
Streaming from the G20 at Nice/Cannes are available on bambuser.com/channel/acampadaparis_int
Around 600 people attempt to set up a camp in Paris today in the Defense (a very big business area) but was repressed by the police and few of them arrested. Live1 Live2
The assembly of Paris support the Transition Day!
There’s actually a new camp which started on 15O in sao bento, Lisbon, in front of the parlament. ocuparlisboa.com
The assembly of Lisbon support the Transition Day!
The 5th. of November in London thousands of Anonymous will march to Westminster, surronding the parliament. Facebook
The Jarrow march who crossed all England by the north is in London since three days and organize marches and conferences until the 5th.
The assembly of London support the Transition Day! opcashback.wordpress.com
Tomorrow and Sunday, mobilisations on financial alternatives will be organized in Amsterdam where the camp is growing occupyamsterdam.nl
One event started in Germany during this week (also for nov5): it consist to “print out a text for real democracy, and on the 5th of November, show it wherever you are.” so it’s all about the power of words and texts, and allows a lot of room for own creativity. more info 5november2011.wordpress.com
The German assemblies support the Transition Day!
In Nijmegen (small town in the Netherlands) 15-25 young people are camping, but they don’t know much about the proposals from global networks.
The assembly of Ljubljana support the Transition Day! But unfortunately they don’t have “ethic” banks.
Most people are focused on early parliamentary elections which take place the 4th of December.
In Brazil the campers are not well informed but people are trying to integrate them in the Global movement.
More details about each city in the minutes (down)
We worked on the organization of the 48H virtual assembly for financial alternatives:
Two people will try to take the minutes during the weekend but we invite everybody to write is own proposal in this pad https://n-1.cc/pg/pages/view/890223
and a maximum of people to collaborate in the retranscription of the debates during this 48H . Some people will also try to moderate the debates but we call to more participation.
This week some occurred some discussion about the improvement of the Global Network and the logical union with the new Occupy movement:
Some proposals was made in this pad https://n-1.cc/pg/pages/view/891711 but we made the distinction between platforms of participation, platforms of informations, and decision making systems.
About the global coordination/participation, a majority of participants was using the social network N-1 who know a big success in the social movements since the 15M but it miss some translation and the usability is not so friendly, everybody can collaborate to the development of this open source and a group of international software programmers are now united in a mailing list (who include people from n-1) to work on other future platforms. Take the square stay really open to revolutions, changes and dynamism, and get ready to move on when it will be necessary again.
Information is our strong point, the way that we absorb it, digest it and spit it out. Takethesquare.net stay the first global website and we have to continue his promotion and facilitate the collaboration via the “Squares” mailing list and not by private contacts, we are for the open source, a real global network, improvement of communication, so let’s share everything!
We integrated this information in the call http://takethesquare.net/2011/10/17/welcome-to-the-global-network-an-invitation-to-all-the-assemblies/ inviting the cities to send their information to the mailing list with a maximum of official texts, communicates, calls, photos, videos… But we are also open to groups and individuals because the personal reports are very interesting.
We call for translations of this call in this platform
We started a list of experts to put in common our talents and facilitate international projects https://n-1.cc/pg/pages/view/900264 please help to make it growing 🙂
One of this project already supported by Takethesquare is the “GlobalSquare 11.11.11” (non official name), it will be a directory of current resources archived and detailed (users, aims, visitors, tutorials…), and we invite you to participate here https://pad.riseup.net/p/HrIMwA9ZfE
More info: http://gst.maito.name/occupy/squares/
December 10, Global action for Human Rights:
About the 10th of December we thoughts important that the content was discussed in the assemblies, work groups, exchanged and that we might address a need to have the human right charter of the 99%, that can be a good motivation and promotion of the event.
We propose a 48H assembly to join proposals to the call. We can do it in two weeks and have two more weeks to make the final text approved by the assemblies. A participant from Morocco call to support the repression against the Moroccan population before this date (the 19 of November?). The discussion continue on the mailing list…
Liora_TLV (tel aviv)
19H UPDATES ON THE GLOBAL WEEK FOR FINANCIAL ALTERNATIVES
During the first 30 minutes while we was waiting for everybody to get connected, we started the X squares meeting with updates on the global week for financial alternatives: about the march for the RobinHood tax, the actual counter summit of the G20 and the “People First, Not Finance!” Forum, the Transition Day of the fifth, bank runs and other local actions…
This informations can inspire other squares and will also help us to make a good report of this week in takethesquare.net
There was an attempt to set up a camp in Paris today in the Defense (a very big business area). The gathering begun at 5pm. There were a lot of people since the beggining. I was not there but I could see what happened with http://actualutte.info/2011/11/04/live-occupation-de-la-defense-a-paris-3/
and some people told me. There was like 600 people maximum, and 50 tents.
A popular assembly was held with very diverse speeches. Some people spoke of the transition day (changing of bank on the 5th of every month). At 9h30 the police began to surround the gathering and then to charge at people. They took and destroyed the tents (!!) so we do not know if people will be able to stay there without tents.
However it seems that a few people were arrested, but we do not know if they were simply released of if the police took them for questioning. Anyways if people cannot stay this night they have agreed to meet again tomorrow at 2pm.
People resist and are very pacific, they say “police with us!”, “no to the violence!” etc. There are a lot of clowns who are very funny.
At 11hpm there are still 300 people. The police took the control of the marches and is surrounding the gathering. They do not prevent people from leaving but people stay. There are no trucks so we suppose that they won’t be able to arrest most of them.
Live from #Occupyladefense
There’s actually a new camp which started on 15O http://ocuparlisboa.com/
sao bento, in front of the parlament, unfortunately a very bad place to camp, the place available to camp is very small. The people are very nice and friendly, I think is about 10-15 people, there is not really room for more.
It’s a completely new camp and I don’t think they have any commission, some of us from the old commissions are going there to help but they are doing allright on their own.
So basically we are part of a sort of platform right now, which was created after 15O so we are a bit in an organizational phase right now and some of us are trying to set up neighbourhoods assemblies, but it’s very difficult.
Unfortunately we don’t have credit banks here in portugal so the best we could do for the TransitionDay is to create a new working group on financial alternatives (I don’t remember the real name, sorry, it was something like that) which will try to open a debate about credit unions.
Everything is going very slowly, it is like we are learning things a second time…
The 5th. of November in London will be a march to Westminster, an action from anonymous crew who want to walk on the parliament with anonymous mask and be thousands…
There also will be the Jarrow march who crossed all England by the north. They are in London since three days and organize marches and conferences. They will make a big talk where I’m invited to talk about the global movement, especially about Spain and Greece.
I will ask tonight for Robin Hood march because the people are pushing this initiative during the G20 and pressuring G.Brown with a petition.
It is well known among the movement but the penetration in the general population is not good, in the UK at least, my work colleagues / parents / friends did not know until I told them myself.
Amsterdam assembly started to work more efficently, there are more than 100 tents in a small plain. we have created international colloboration group last week, focused on the practicalities.
Robin Hood tax idea was not agreed but there was a general mobilisation on the 29th.
What I have heard of (op cashback / banktransferday / moveyourmoney / transition day) is that this is working out / pretty well-known I think, also in Germany.
The info has been distributed by the German Real Democracy Now / Occupy groups and pages, so it is well known to everybody reading a little bit about that, but Chessypig is probably right regarding penetration in whole population.
Fortunatly there has been recently a mainstream media article about increase in usage of credit unions if I recall correctly.
One event started in germany during this week (also on nov5): it is “print out a text for real democracy, and on the 5th of november, show it wherever you are.” so it’s all about the power of words and texts, and allows a lot of room for own creativity (more info: 5november2011.wordpress.com).
Unfortunately, we didn’t have time to talk about it here, but we’ll do it again next year.
In Nijmegen (small town in the Netherlands) we have 15-25 young people camping, but they don’t know much about the proposals from global networks. (That’s why I’m here) But they have organised something every weekend: a manifestation, a march and tomorrow there is a festival (about alternative energy I think)
We are very slow in Wales ( generations of subjugation? ) There is a gathering on 11-11-11 , but many in UK feel ‘armistice day’ isn’t a good time to protest…
Hi! Niel we urged people here in Slovenia to close their accounts in greed banks tomorrow. Unfortunately we don’t have “ethic” banks. People are still not aware about what is going abroad. We need to work more on informing people. Most people are focused on early parlamentary elections which take place on 4th of December.
Hi, here in Brazil there’s near 0 public awareness about global proposals for the 5th. Even the campers are not well informed. We’re trying to integrate more with you guys, that’s why I came…
19H30 48H VIRTUAL GLOBAL AGORA ON FINANCIAL ALTERNATIVES
– How to write the minutes of this 48H assembly?
I can do for freenode chat all sunday but not saturday, someone can see for saturday day and night? You can just be connected and copy all the discussion to past it on the pad, we will work on the cleanning together during the next days, but for the mumble I have no ideas.
I am always on & can transcribe my log , with ur help : niel_london, I will try to get a grip on it, and save all
Mumble is open source version of skype, evey body can record themsleves and add on to a dropbox file, so all speches can be saved, gathered and shared via dropbox or similar share software. I can prepare tutorial for that.
– Turns for moderation?
I can on freenod sunday day and night, I will open a thread on the mailing list with all this debate to invite people to participate (moderation, minutes, promotion) and share ideas.
– How to motivate more people to participate during this week end?
[19:48] <niel_london> I wanted to know if the people here shared the call in their assemblies
[19:48] <niel_london> + for athens
[19:49] <BJ_wales> –
[19:49] <logos_br> –
[19:50] <jasper_nijmegen_> – for Nijmegen
[19:50] <Liora_TLV> –
[19:50] <Drago_Ljubljana> +
[19:51] <niel_london> Do you have the oportunity to share it before monday morning?
[19:51] <Liora_TLV> –
[19:51] <niel_london> + for london
[19:51] <logos_br> +
[19:51] <BJ_wales> –
[19:51] <jasper_nijmegen_> +
Printing leaflets and pushing in shops / doors
FB event, it’s do-able. Best idea I got for getting people to participate here in Israel is to contact the participants from 15O event, we had an assembly on A Just Global Economy, and try to use our new movement portal to advertise…
If someone can edit it (leaflets) and create the fb event I can share it in takethesquare.net with the link to the facebook event, if nobody can edit I think we just pass, about the livestream can we try to connect assemblies saturday and sunday (when you have) a maximum to share about our works on financial issues? I can put this in twitter takethesquare, I don’t know more about hashtag and all this things so if you have more ideas about feedbacks… (Niel and Liora arranged the FB event in private)
We are having a meet up sat+sun at mumble plus sun with Sol ppl we spect 200 ppl both days. I will spread the info during the spanish national meeting of this week end.
Since the meeting will be on internet anyway and the participants could spread the info while they are in the meeting we could use #virtualGA or #globalassembly
If you have more ideas about the promotion just send it on the mailing list please.
20H THE GLOBAL NETWORK, A WORK IN PROGRESS
– Improvement of the network (communication and coordination of the information)
[20:36] <ChessyPig_MOD> Does your part of the movement use N-1 or any similar tools?
[20:36] <Tindingx_Gijon> +
[20:36] <niel_london> – for athens
They was interested and I had to make a workshop but we never had time, lot of more important things to do there…
[20:36] <carlos_madrid> +
[20:37] <niel_london> + for barcelona
[20:37] <Liora_TLV> –
Attempts to have an N-1 type network here in Israel have failed. We have a mailing list, other than that, we use FB and google groups – people here just have a problems adjusting to different methods.
[20:37] <logos_br> +
[20:37] <BJ_wales> –
My group use FB, I deleted my account when Goldman-Sachs bought in.
[20:37] <Drago_Ljubljana> +
[20:37] <jasper_nijmegen_> –
[20:37] <niel_london> + for paris, bruxelles
[20:37] <michele_lisbon> + but we are few
[20:38] <Orsan_Amsterdam> + some in amsterdam
FB Google etc are arms of the 1% , IMHO – they will wither as the banks will
May be we need to find a way to integrate all tools being used in varying localities in to each other with a structure, being old and good in exixting system gives more power to the olders and also new people in occupations are getting used to new systems tools etc. I thing we need to keep all the existing ones and try to create an umbrealle that combines all olds and new tools.
Some people here are in the occupydev mailing list? they talk about the creation of this kind of tools and it looks like the people in this list are experts and software programers (they are also from europe) included people from n-1.
I’m really for the development of some new tool (or tools) that allow the participation of everyone and with a lot of cool characteristics but I thing we need something more inmediate (appart from the work that can continue be doing in thinking and developing the new tools) and a mailing list seems me the easiest and more direct option. the Squares mailing list as already so much people and assemblies in it so I would discuss if we want to create a new one, with some particular things, or use Squares and push it to the countries that are not included yet.
I’m totally for keeping the squares mailing list, it’s up to everybody to try to moderate the people, but we promoted it a lot since six months and since the 15o hundreds of people are entering every weeks, we have very good contacts and it’s a shame that the majority don’t participate to the debate but everywhere I gone, also in all the international meetings I included a lot of people, may be they don’t participate but they use the info and that’s the principal.
I’m not against the idea of that list being Squares… but I see some advantages in it being a new one, for example, now that we have some experience in coordinating in Squares the new one could be work better since the beginning so all the people that entered it would be more eager to participate… I mean, when you join a mailing list, is because you are interested in it, and want to participate (mostly..) so if there is so much people in Squares that don’t participate, I think that can be because they have get tired or saturated, or whatever..
If they are saturated they are not in the mailing list, they unsuscribe, if they stay it’s because they want follow the info
Yes , carlos , niel – push what is available now , for brevity and pace, and support improvements as and when they can be delivered, hopefully N-1 can centralise the mailing etc to one point ?
I wanted to join to this call http://takethesquare.net/2011/10/17/welcome-to-the-global-network-an-invitation-to-all-the-assemblies/
a call to the people to send information in the mailing list and not in the contactmail of the webpage takethesquare, we are for open source, global network, improvment of the communication, so let’s share everything. I want to dissociate the mailing list “squares” which is a tool open to everybody and the website takethesqure.net which is a informative webpage administrated by a few people. I think that the cities who want to share their information have to send it to the mailing list with a maximum of official text, communicates, calls, photos, videos… but the personal reports are also very interesting, and everybody can use it, takethesquare (and I’m the first to publish the mail in the webpage) but in all the others too.
N-1 and this kind of participative platforms are for an other topic and we are not qualified to talk about this here I think but the communication works pretty good, the webpage is the best globally for me and now we have to invite people to share more info. I can integrate in the call “welcome to the global network” a sentence to invite people to send more report in the list, publish it on tts and make it viral all together, if nobody is against it will be published during the next days, send proposal if you have ideas but it’s just about one sentence 🙂
“welcome to the global network” call should be translated to be more effective globally…
I put it directly in translaters teams, please help locally
– List of experts/necessities
– Creation of working groups and international projects
We didn’t have time to talk about this topic
– Tools for a global decision making system
I agree with what Niel says, the list is really great for information, and from this point of view, the idea of encouraging people to send personal reports is a good one but it is not so good for decision making, and that idea would make it even worse. Thats why I think it would be good the creation of a new list, just for assemblies, so each list could have a specific function, one for information, one for decision-making.
In Spain, there is a mailing list called Plazas (spanish word for “squares”), where there are just the official mails of assemblies. Well, they are the ones that can send mails, anyone can suscribe and “listen” and it’s really good for taking decisions since being only assemblies, when a proposal is launched, it has a hard work behind and the answers to them take some time in arrive, cause they have to be taken in each assembly, but are much more meditated also.
As I said before people are working on tools for decision making, personally If we don’t have the methodology is better to don’t start to open this topic, we did it a lot by the past, making decision locally with reporters who send info on the mailing list looks the best for the moment.
The question of power and governance are central and crucial in the movement (as the general public and press have undelined )
The creation of power structures are what is happening, and in a natural way: many devices, many platfoms are increasing 1) IRC 2) email list 3) forum. All as integrated as can be achieved?
By my experience a mailisg list for decision maiking doesn’t work very well, usually too many e-mails does’nt work for people not too expert in computers or heavy e-mail managing.
People tend to prefer different applications, specific and exclusive for that purpose, so it doesn’t mix with their personal/work e-mails. A forum or similar may work better.
I mean it is very crucial practically and strategically at this moment to have something that would give us more unity, speed, productivity, practicality, etc. but it seems to me these inventions are going to be the building blocks of evolving ‘new system’ so from early steps we need to be really open to revolutions and change, and dynamism, and get ready to move on when it is necessary again.
I agree, mailing list for decision making is complicated. Here in Israel we have a group called Idemos that have created a system for it, a unique website for raising issues and discussing them in order to achieve consensus for final documents http://www.idemos.org
Well , I think that just a form of directory of existing tools, no offence, would not be impressive enough – it needs to be interactive, to be a new message to the world, to embody this message of new deomcracy
Lionel_Valencia call for devs for a Global Square which would do this kind of thing – email to email@example.com if interested
is a simple, hurriedly-constructed site to serve as the foundation for a resource we hope to build up over time. The centre portion of the page lists a bit of information about what the site is about and what we will need to do in the days and weeks ahead. Our main priority is having something ready for the 11.11.11 date.
21H30 11.11.11 CALL TO UNITY
introduction to new web site which tries to unify the squares and occupy movements
We are considering a Proposal for Improving the Global Network, but we have to consider before formal issues, material issues to know, what we really need.
While our movement operate in local or state basis we have a reference; our government, but in the global space there is no power, power is up for grab, global power is not the G20 or Obama.
At the state level we can oppose policies, at the global level we have to implement policies and in this regard our way of working at the global level is not to fight the G20 but to propose an initiative for other people to join, that is, it does not go about voting because voting is a kind of false commitment, it goes about joing people to help other people.
I hope I have been able to transmit more the idea
Why a new platform if we have tts who is global since six months and howtooccupy to share strategies, and if the both knows a big success worldwide?
The actual idea that is currently being implemented for the 11/11/11 call is specifically not another ‘platform’ yet – but a directory of current resources so we would have a directory page for each resource detailing what it is, who is currently using it, who it’s aimed at, why the visitor might want to use it, and how to get started with it. There are thoughts about having a platform later attached to this for meta-discussion and deep discussions of economics, philosophies etc but that is far in the future. London know – I’m in their meeting right now also and have told them – there isn’t really a central Occupy place like this though.
The presentation requires also a look at the initial site we have developed.
We want to construct a system that makes it easy for occupy sites around the world to submit information about resources in various categories. Perhaps those who are able would like to take a peek now to see what we have in mind. Note that the navigation is not yet fully implemented, so you can roll over items in the navbar, but it’s best not to click on anything, except under the “RESOURCES” category.
Information submitted would be subject to review prior to its appearing on the site. We also would like (I think) to present various items of current news pertaining to the Squares/Occupy movement. Having that facility would, if we do a good job of it, provide an incentive for people to keep coming back to the site. Another system will be in place for easily accepting contributions of information about articles from various sources, including “mainstream media” on the movement, which would also be subject to review and categorisation.
We will initially be in need of some assistance, as outlined on the first page of the site.
We are a New Thing, this movement – above power & finance, but we require them to wither& die to act properly. Till then we create a framework to exist in
On the 11..11.11 we may make a call and bring all the existing tools together to dislpay our unity to the world
[22:20] <niel_london> If nobody is against the creation of this project, we open a group in n-1, subgroup of takethesquare and you will be able to present the advancement of your work, invite people to participate… everybody can be aware with the minutes of this meeting and when you will have something more concrete we will put it in partner in tts
[22:22] <+ChessyPig_MOD> – for using a n-1 group
[22:23] <niel_london> n-1 group just can help to promote your project but if you dont want to use it it’s not a pb for me
22H30 DECEMBER 10, GLOBAL DAY FOR HUMAN RIGHTS
– How to reach a global consensus in one month?
We have in Amsterdam an event to talk about the future visions on the 11th 12th and 13th of November, and there are many events planned as far as I know simliar to the 10th of december and its important that the content need to be discussed in the assemblies, work groups, exchanged and we might adress a need to have the human right charter of the %99, that can be a good motivation and promotion of the event.
I propose a 48H assembly to join proposal to the call. We can do it in two weeks and have two more weeks to make the final text approved by the assemblies.
– How to integrate all the countries and make them participate? Redaction of the call
This topic will be reported to a next meeting
– Promotion of the event
International support 15 October Democracia Real Ya are working on it, try to get people for posters, videos, logos etc. It is also a proposal of statment or call for all in the world to join campaign “Call for Global Day of Action on World Human Rights Day, Saturday December 10th, 2011” which should be send to each assemblies. We are workin on this event and will be simillar as for 15o. so 48h Assembly!
– Contest for actions
Since you know about what happened in morocco last demonstrations including the 15.O one the police had oprressed us, so first we ask you to show some support and pressing the authorities by do some sit-ins front of moroccan ambassies before the 10th to avoid the police intervention again and for a little suggestion for the 10th too even if i would like to focus on the siggestions tomorrow I purpose to gather the most of countries flags, during demonstrations to tell the governers that we are one nation, one gathered and unite people.
Youness proposed the 19 of November, we will talk about it in the next meeting.
END OF THE MEETING AT 23H30