Minutes of the XIII Squares Meeting – Cities Feedback and Global Proposal for the 15M Global Strike

This Friday January 6 at 6 p.m GMT on webchat.freenode.net channel #takethesquare

Agnosticnixie – Athens, Greece
Amgine – OccupyMediawiki.org. Host, manage, support mediawikis for protest groups
anna_uk – Yorkshire, UK
bruno – Brazil/Napoli, Italy
Caedes – N-1 programer
ChessyPig – Cambridge, UK
Cronopio – Madrid, Spain also admin of takethesquare.net
Djdeli – Involved in quite a few working groups in Occupy London, UK
Drunkenmacleod – Occupy Justice, London, UK
Hieroph4nt – Ontheroad, europeanrevolution.net, takethesquare.net…
jasper – Nijmegen, Netherlands
Jhonny5 – Berlin, Germany
Nebula42 – Occupy Wall Street, USA
Niel – ICBcn & 15M General Strike Barcelona, ontheroad, takethesquare.net, transitionday.takethesquare.net and howtooccupy.org
Orsan – Amsterdam, Netherlands
Radleft – Occupy Wall Street. USA
Seekr – Boston , USA
Shomon – 15M Barcelona, Spain
Thunder – International relationships and coordination, Valencia, Spain

This meeting permitted us to join contacts, to exchange about our local situations, to put in common our information on dedicated global platforms and to work together on the proposal for a  transnational strike which should be ready for AgoraRoma.
We i
nvite a maximum of cities to create local outreach/labor/strike committees and to participate physically or virtually to the discussion in Rome.
Everybody can collaborate to the minutes here where you can still put informations, especially if you didn’t assist to the meeting, or continue to chat.
If you click on 15M Global Strike at the top left you can join the group and put more content (videos, pictures, files…) and open forums, sub-groups or wikis.
Thanks for your participation, don’t hesitate to ask for questions.


Free Discussion
18H00 (60Min) Presentations/Feedbacks 
Cities and working groups feedbacks, contacts, updates  and clarifications.

[18:10] <djdeli>
There has been a lot of buzz about May this week in London. I get the feeling that people want something big to look forward to. 2 e-mail threads, people speaking about it on the ground and sounding very enthusiastic. Well just the idea of an international day of solidarity in May.
We are going to go with May 1st Unite, May 12th Act, May 15th Strike.
[22:34] <djdeli> bit disappointed that we won’t actually have a Mayday on Mayday in England
[22:35] <niel_barcelona> but may day mean 1st of may?
[22:35] <djdeli> well i think so but in England it is the first Monday of the month, 7th
[22:36] <niel_barcelona> better no? that decentralize the actions
[22:36] <djdeli> International WG want me to report back so I think I will propose working on the 7th, 12th and 15th. Be easier to hold a GA when there are many people on the streets.
Yeah, will try. It gives us a chance to gain a bit more momentum. I will propose to International working group to organise a link up with US on the 1st.

[18:15] <ChessyPig>
In the UK there’s always been a Labour Day bank holiday in May, but this year it’s been arbitarily moved to tack onto the Queen’s Jubilee celebrations, this is an obvious opportunity to reclaim as a strike flashpoint, it’s been moved to June. So action on the day it should have been is a popular date.
I’m in Cambridge, we’re having our first meeting in the city on Sunday, but there are very few people willing to actually do anything here. There’s a IWW local group and a Transition Towns group we ought to talk to, etc
But most people are so massively apathetic, especially about unions; it’s all ‘keep your head down and maybe you won’t be downsized’ in the office-workers’ world

[18:19] <anna_uk>
That sounds good, we had meeting with TT. Very good video you could show Chessy http://vimeo.com/33206215
[22:44] <shomon> here is a list of just the TT projects – also includes affiliated groups http://www.transitionnetwork.org/nearby

[18:25] <niel_barcelona>
In barcelona people talk about it in the street and on the net, few commissions are working on it but international work on a project of massive exodus from the central squares to the villages, repoblation project, legal and communication will cover the strike, members of action, pirate, comunication, international, alternative economies are now part of the group 15M general strike
In barcelona quasi all of us will leave until and of february so the next meeting will take place in one month with the final proposal translated in spanish and catalan.
You have also the commission strike and mobilizations http://acampadadebarcelona.org/index.php/ca/comissions/vaga-i-movilitzacions
With the unions its looks also good, the anarchists are already with us and the radical left are talking with us. I told with some of them but we didnt joined the projects for the moment because evrything will start in february.
[22:33] <niel_barcelona>  did you seen map.squaresdatebase.org i opened a new category “transition project” to invite everybody to add the co-operatives or self-managed project of their cities
tonight if i have time i will divide in “education”, “permaculture”, “energy”… in one click we will can see all the alternative schools for exemple with the contact to create link between the projects
you can see that we also can add the actions for the may days
dont forget 15mglobalstrike@lists.takethesquare.net

 [18:28] <Thunder_Valencia>
In Valencia we are afraid that we can’t force a strike if the labor unions don’t do it. We spoke about how to force the leaders, but it will be difficult. Our situation in spain is quite hard right now. And we are pretty sure that it will be harder in few weeks.
[18:33] <niel_barcelona> yes and people are very angry against the elections
[18:33] <Thunder_Valencia> and cuts, here in our city the goverment just stop paying the health care
[18:34] <niel_barcelona> and unions
[18:34] <Thunder_Valencia> unions made a nice and short memo, thats it (ironic mode). They agree with us when we meet them but later on… you know. It’s like allways.
[18:36] <niel_barcelona> The majoritarian unions will follow this time because they didn’t last time and people are very angry
[18:36] <Thunder_Valencia> but I would agree that our city is a special scenario.
We have a labor group to a national strike but don’t know if they are still active, tho

[18:52] <radleft>
OWS has a Labor Outreach, affinity groups are also working at strengthening ties to certain labor focused groups.
We are making contact with some anarcho/syn cover groups in the US. The main umbrella group isn’t a labor union.



[20:42] <djdeli> Yeah doing the same in London. I know your labour working groups are quite well established in US

Proposal from franckfurt http://www.dazwischengehen.org/en/story/2011/12/dear-comrades-and-friends-indignads
« We suggest that we get ourselves going on May 15th, 2012, the anniversary of the first large meeting in Madrid. On Wednesday, May 16th, the ECB’s Governing Council meets in Frankfurt. Friday, May 18th could be our main Day of Action: In several European countries, many people are having a day off because of a previous holiday, while banks and businesses are open in Frankfurt, so we can effectively interrupt the businesses. On May 19th, a major European demonstration could follow. »

[18:28] <Thunder_Valencia> In Valencia we are afraid that we can’t force a strike if the labor unions don’t do it. We spoke about how to force the leaders, but it will be difficult.
[18:31] <anna_uk> But if its not official they lose money. In my opinion just to strike achieves nothing
[18:32] <niel_barcelona> may be its up to the members to force their leaders or to forget them, and we have to enter in contact with a maximum of members. It’s also up to us to resolve this problem (of money) and its part of the proposal
[18:32] <djdeli> I don’t think even in 5 months we would be able to force a strike, but I think that if we worked on a proposal asking the unions to support our day of action they may call there “6 monthly” stike on the 15th
19:04] <radleft> We will need to make the entire month of May a month of global action, to cover all the ops.
[19:05] <djdeli> as I see there are also calls by some groups for a strike in America on mayday, I was under the impression it was columbus day and a holiday
[19:05] <anna_uk> May is the begining of spring it is the time for celebration
[19:05] <radleft> In the US it would be best to start our agitation for this on May 1st, The 12 & 15 would be hard to do locally without previous momentum.
[19:06] <djdeli> Yes I think depending on where you are not all of these days are going to be possible.
[19:06] <radleft> We could start in Chicago, the site of the first May1st.
[19:07] <djdeli> We have the European Banking forum in London from the 8th-10th of May
[19:09] <radleft> We have some good chicago contacts now.
[19:09] <djdeli> Yeah, as a start point on the 1st May. Livestream linkups. Maybe something could be done at midnight which would link up to European times quite nicely
[19:10] <radleft> Nebu, chicago is one of the more solid sister radio teams.
[19:11] <Nebula42> chicago was the start for the battle of the eight hour day
[19:11] <Nebula42> so it’d make a lot of sense
[19:22] <djdeli> So the 12th of May can be a day when people who have never occupied before occupy


Moderated Discussion
20H00 (90Min) Debate about the proposal
Info: https://n-1.cc/pg/pages/view/1072753
[19:11] <niel_barcelona> I can introduce, during the last meetings we agreed to write a first call, to explain what we are, what we want and why a general strike to indefinite duration but after my road to uk and what i’ve seen on internet since the 15o i choosed to add a chapter about our background, the first one and we can start with it because oine person want to remove the sentence about israel and another about the internet movements (because if I put five or six I have to put all of them)

[19:23] <niel_barcelona> everybody is agree to add something about the background of the movement?
[19:24] <Nebula42> +
[19:24] <radleft> +
[19:24] <anna_uk> – I think the background is different for everybody, your background is different from my back ground, it is very personal
[19:25] <niel_barcelona> we talk about the global movement background, not the personal, did you read it? its from wikipedia
[19:26] <bruno_napoli> !ok, pass my turn , I was going to say that
[19:26] <anna_uk> it is not one ovement, it is many voices, many people with many histories, your history is interesting but it is your history
[19:27] <niel_barcelona> but the things in common?
[19:27] <bruno_napoli> ! it’s a network of movements anna, that has a common background
[19:27] <anna_uk> not mine
[19:27] <niel_barcelona> do you think its normal everybody shaking the end around the world ?taking the square? making assembly? working group, for real democracy…
you dont think that we have something in common? common methodologies?
[19:33] <anna_uk> Of course we have something in common, but we were doing things before you took the square
[19:33] <niel_barcelona> of course thats why i finished with “have also been of great influence to this (r)evolution.”
[19:34] <anna_uk> I recognise what happened in spain as valuable when I see the content as valuable not just the history and that goes for everywhere. iam not interested in history for its own dake
[19:36] <radleft> To inform, for more effective tactics.
[19:36] <anna_uk> no particularly to give heart, that is what I get from the spanish, they talk about collective thought, building togethr rather than debate
ok I have said my piece if you want to put in background that’s ok
[19:41] <Nebula42> okay this is just a suggestion for this go to go smoother we need to be pragmatic and not focus too much on history and theory
[19:42] <niel_barcelona> its just an introduction and you can skip it
[19:44] <ChessyPig> People are really bad at reading through stuff. Have you all seen Anna’s ‘MAYDAY’ encapsulation of the call? http://occupii.org/group/occupy-uk/forum/topics/mayday-mayday I think it’s important to start with something punchy like that, then go into the deep stuff
[19:45] <niel_barcelona> so the arguments for the moment to skip the introduction are: 1. we are not a global movement but an addition of movements and 2. the background are borring. am i right?
[19:46] <bruno_napoli> – we are a global movement
[19:47] <Nebula42> ! i would say we’re a global movement but local at the same, we have a common enemy; neoliberalism
[19:47] <djdeli> I think the call out should be global, but the stategies should be local.
[19:51] <radleft> I don’t see why the background can’t include a bit of the current history of the global movement, and the MAYDAY call to action.
[19:51] <niel_barcelona> ok, personally I think that if we make a global call we have to say who we are globally and what we want globally, what we will do will be local and we can find the common point or coordinate common actions all this is in the text but to finish with the introduction, do you block the background ?
[19:52] <niel_barcelona> who block the background?
[19:52] <niel_barcelona> who want to modificate something?
[19:52] <anna_uk> No leave it if people can skip it
[19:53] <ChessyPig> !can we put the background at the end like an appendix instead of up front?
[19:53] <niel_barcelona> ok I can just let the link of the first chapter and follow directly with the second chapter “aim of the movement, nobody want to modificate something?
[21:42] <shomon> 15o at least “felt” global. If this is similar – with 1000 cities participating or similar it could be legitimate to say it?

[19:57] <niel_barcelona> so the second chapter “aims”, do you have modifications?
[20:00] <anna_uk> I want to question the focussed people. I already spoke about this to you. I’m not sure people have read it all. Does everybody know what i am referring to
[20:03] <niel_barcelona> focused in level of involment, people who feel responsible to reach the objective of their group, its a constatation, not a theory 🙂
[20:04] <anna_uk> It sounds like there is a distinction being made between those who have the time to focus and so have more responsibility, and those who are just interested
[20:05] <djdeli> I think that is correct
[20:05] <niel_barcelona> you dont see differences? in term of involvment and responsabilities?
[20:05] <anna_uk> I don’t see why you are making the distinction. Maybe one day a person is focussed, the next day she/he is occasional, maybe morning focussed afternoon intersted, same person
[20:08] <ChessyPig> I just wanted to bring some context to what Anna’s saying – Occupy London has had a lot of trouble lately (judging from their internet output anyway) about ‘who is a ‘real’ occupier’, so there is tension about marking some people out as ‘focussed’ and them possibly not admitting others (either physically or in their ideas)
[20:12] <niel_barcelona> I dont talk about the real occupiers and the fake, but as you know, in every project, some people feel really responsible and especially in a process of revolution give a lot of time and energy to reach the objectives they have when other are more occasional, other just interested but dont have time to come…
[20:13] <anna_uk> who judges that? they are all equal imo
[20:14] <niel_barcelona> the interested people dont have time to work with you so i dont think that you can include them in the first step of your strategy or mobilisation also because you know that they will be there the day of the action. I didnt say that they are not iqual why you say that?
[20:14] <djdeli> I think having a group of people focussed on the issue is important, but it may well be called the “May working group” that group will still have to interact with working groups around it who are not focussed on may, but want to be involved and then you would have people who are intersted and those who occasionally interact with the project.
[20:16] <radleft> Also, at the OWS op, we describe people who can only make it to weekend ops or the occasional day march, as ‘casuals.’
[20:16] <anna_uk> If they decide themselves why do you have to make a distinction
[20:16] <radleft> For planning purposes only.
[20:16] <niel_barcelona> everybody can take responsability, everybody can focus on objectives
[20:16] <anna_uk> Maybe one day they are casuals then they stay for a week then again a casual
[20:17] <niel_barcelona> this people are not focused, you cant be focused one day anna
[20:17] <anna_uk> tell me about the planning radleft
[20:17] <radleft> We are not calling any individual a ‘casual’, but when we plan a march, we need to decide how many ‘casuals’ may show up. When you have 30,000 at a march, obviously all of them aren’t physical ‘occupiers.’ But many raindrops together can become a flood.
[20:17] <niel_barcelona> that mean that you are not responsible of the objective, but ocasionally you can help and its very respectfull too, especially if you dont have a lot of time to work on the project.
The focused people dont have any more right than the other, but they have duty, I dont see them in a better position…
[20:20] <anna_uk> What duty do they have?
[20:20] <niel_barcelona> the responsability of the reaching of the objectives, of course they dont have a gun on the head, they feel themselves responsibles
[20:20] <radleft> They are accepting the liability of performing the task they agree to take on.
[20:20] <niel_barcelona>
[20:21] <bruno_napoli> the duty we cast upon ourselves…
[20:21] <anna_uk> I don’t feel any duty so I am a casual
[20:23] <radleft> Anna, the duty is what Che was refering to as ‘love.’
[20:23] <niel_barcelona> if you want to create a free school of langages for exemple you need one prof responjsible of the french, another of the spanish and another for the englkish for exemple, and if each one can find other prof to make more work or divide it better but you need a minimum of one responsible of each section and if you have two profs responsible of the french section better, the more responsibles you can find the better is
To be responsible mean: in my working group I said that I will send an invitation to all the association of the neighborhood because we need it, well if I cant do it I have to find someone who will do it. do you understand better anna?
[20:27] <orsan_ams> this is exaclty what wiki or p2p project means
[20:27] <anna_uk> I understand but I don’t share your opinions, never mind, we are just different
[20:27] <radleft> Should that person be ethically held to doing what they offered to do?
[20:28] <anna_uk> How can they be ethically held?
[20:28] <radleft> By the fact that they said thwy would do it, anna.
[20:28] <orsan_ams> think about anonymous, how they work, or wikileaks
[20:29] <niel_barcelona> if we need a video call for the 15M, I will not ask to the people interested by communication but who dont have time to work in the group, I will not ask to the ocasional people you can just come to the meeting ocasionally but i will ask to the people focused in the audiovisual studio the people who will work day and may be night on the video
[20:29] <orsan_ams> we are combining some new elements with older traditions here
[20:30] <niel_barcelona> the text say: Working groups of people co-operating on specific projects (communication, direct action, outreach, international, economy…), revolving around: – a nucleus of full time “focused” people who feel responsible of the reaching of the specific objectives of – a “working group” which works and meets regularly and is sometimes joined by – “occasional” people who cannot assist to the whole process but can contribute and execute specific tasks of projects made for the – “interested” people who will be present on the day of the action/activity or will profit from the service given by the group but who don’t have the time to participate to the work (and might be “focused” on another group).
There is no judgment its just something to realise to plan a better strategy and make use of the interested, casual, working group and focused people in the good time
[20:32] <anna_uk> It is not the people who are occasional or are focussed, they can be both
[20:34] <niel_barcelona> ok look, im interested by alternative school, I want to create one as part of the movement of my city, but im already focused on the strike mobilization with some objectives to reach that nobody will reach if I dont do it, so I have to find the people who can focus on it and i will can participate to the working group but I will cannot focus on different things
For the may days action we need local structures or platform of struggles, an organigram for exemple: rural fight, student fight, imigrant fight, retired fight, public sector fight for exemple, if not you dont will have a GENERAL strike, but you cannot focus on reaching all this people you need to devide in working groups specialized, well if you are five on the original ‘strike’ group each person will focus on his own sector to mobilize and you will coordinate the work and the info in the meeting of the working group
you will have this five people (example) focused on their own objective but joining every week the working group meeting open to everybody where sometime one of them will bring the leader of the electricians worker for exemple, a casual person who can help a lot with a concrete work but cannot focus, and the day of the manifestation you will reach a lot of interested people who couldnt work during all the process with you
[20:44] <radleft> That is the ‘loose coalition’ model.
[20:44] <niel_barcelona> when you know that (the human factor ^^) you can plan a better strategy, with a specific chronology
[20:46] <anna_uk> I don’t want to be part of this planning group for the strike I am going to focus on building with permaculture
[20:48] <niel_barcelona> and we need you to focus on permaculture and ocasionally come to the meeting of the group “holistic co-operative” (for exemple) to present your part of the holistic alternative system your movement want to create. Personally I really believe that permaculture is a crucial point of the transition but i cannot focus on it, I cannot work in the working group because i dont have the time and the skills but im interested and if you start your project I will be in
[20:50] <bruno_napoli> neither do I, but some people in my town’s camp started an ecovillage project
[20:50] <niel_barcelona> you understand?
[20:50] <anna_uk> +
[21:02] <niel_barcelona> in the group n-1 everybody can open subgroup about actions or projects like permaculture

[20:51] <niel_barcelona> about the aim of the movement (global) are you agree with the text?
[20:55] <anna_uk> Can we use another word for fight
[20:56] <GregorySamba> conflict management
[20:56] <niel_barcelona> struggles
[20:56] <radleft> ‘Struggle?’
[20:56] <orsan_ams> it depends on the success of these kind of planning and actions
[20:56] <niel_barcelona> I made the modification in the text
[20:56] <radleft> cool
[20:56] <anna_uk> better
[20:56] <niel_barcelona> 2.3
[20:56] <GregorySamba> yes
I know that locally there is more content but as a global movement do we want 1. Generalize our fight to the 99% 2. generalize our alternative project to the 99%?
[20:53] <radleft> Niel: the aim is direct democracy based on peoples assemblies?
[20:54] <niel_barcelona> yes, and the concrete direct objective are the intensification of our action to extend it to all the actors of the society and 2. the creation of alternatives to all the 99%
[20:55] <orsan_ams> 2012 will be the beginning of the emancipation or enslavement]

[21:00] <niel_barcelona> we cannot plan the strike right now, we have to define why, call for it and design it with all the society
[21:00] <seekr_boston> niel_barcelona:  Agreed.  I think that understanding the reasons and the strategy, and how to make the idea acceptable to natural allies, especially the unions, is very important.
[21:01] <djdeli> the problem is that the strike will have a different definition in every country
[21:01] <niel_barcelona> are you all agree with the first step: the creation of specific group about the may days action?
[21:02] <Nebula|Netbook> i would love to use this to kick off a new labor movement internationally
[21:02] <seekr_boston> I want to see a well-written, well thought out description of what are the aims of the strike or any other action being contemplated.
[21:04] <anna_uk>  plus we are talking about a new union for all the unwaged
[21:04] <Nebula|Netbook> we need to use a plethora of tactics
[21:06] <niel_barcelona> are you all agree with: 1. There are several options to give a political content to this first global strike: The most strategic, democratic and practical one is to decentralize the actions, inviting a maximum amount of actors of the society to strike through their own direct actions (which can be coordinated as part of a bigger general one) and with their own demands (which can be included as part of a bigger general statement).
[21:06] <Nebula|Netbook> + niel
[21:07] <bruno_napoli> + niel
[21:07] <radleft> Niel: +
[21:08] <shomon> Niel +
[21:08] <niel_barcelona> 2. the other option which is compatible: Another option is the redaction of a common demand or minimum(s) which can be local or global (referendum, reform of the democracy, right to protest…) and be realized during the next five months (the May 1 GA can be a good occasion to build a consensus on the final demand).
[21:12] <bruno_napoli> local demands and global common goals
[21:13] <radleft> ‘Think globally, act locally.’
[21:13] <niel_barcelona> 3. One single demand we could reclaim is the sovereignty of the assemblies, of our vision of the real democracy. It is interesting because we will invite the citizens in their squares or the workers in their factories for example to reclaim the sovereignty of their own assembly as part of their occupation.
[21:13] <orsan_ams> no single demand, that did not work remember adbuster’s call
[21:13] <shomon> simple suggestions / instructions that appeal to many different people would be needed then – a howto.
[21:14] <radleft> No single demand: +
[21:14] <niel_barcelona> 4. workers/consumers who helped maintain the system will stop to do so and apply their energies on alternative projects in a permanent flow or exodus towards the future. On the agenda: expropriation of public spaces (universities, hospitals, parliaments, squares…), means of production, natural resources, free energy, mass-media… but continuing creating to start and prolong this process of global change.
[21:14] <niel_barcelona> do you see more options?
[21:15] <niel_barcelona> are they incompatible = do we have to elect one?
[21:15] <shomon> a demand for a farmer, for a city dweller, for someone across the world or in times square, will be different
[21:15] <shomon> but there are basics – international agreements of basics that might work out
[21:15] <orsan_ams> i think 1st and 4th are competable, so distributed/decentralised and that links shaltering down and striking with alternatives type strikes, we may think of it as ‘swarm strike’ from every side attacking bottom, inside, aroundand transforming the subject into something else
[21:17] <niel_barcelona> the strategy to give options to the people is it good?
[21:18] <radleft> I think this is workable: +
[21:18] <shomon> regarding point 3, do you know about social charter efforts?
[21:23] <niel_barcelona> in parralel we can create an international group to write a global demand
I dont think we can impose any action or political content but we can propose a global demand from an international working group to all the assemblies
[21:25] <radleft> +
[21:25] <Nebula|Netbook> +
[21:25] <shomon> you mean only one demand, and it’s demanded of governments?
[21:27] <niel_barcelona> personally I think (and its the point 3) that the ONE demand can be the sovereignty of the assemblies (horizontal, transparent, open, consensus…) of the people concerned, the sovereignty of the assembly of your factories instead of those of the financers
[21:27] <shomon> I prefer that: people agree something for themselves, not make a demand on some outside group. but assemblies are small, they don’t represent all people yet. I mean I completely agree that is a goal,  but shouldn’t the demand be to form more assemblies?
to make them on every street, village – decentralise and take it where it’s not reached
[21:28] <niel_barcelona> + its part of the proposal, in the second chapter paragraph 2 and 3
[21:29] <djdeli> that should be the goal I think. Use May as a platform to launch these assemblies.
[21:30] <niel_barcelona> dont forget that the alternative project we will introduce to our co-citizen will also work with assemblies
[21:30] <shomon> the existing process to give legal foundations to assemblies over a common resource is the social charter process. http://globalcommonstrust.org/?page_id=20 this has been done already  – also even here in barcelona. It’s not something that 15-m assemblies have done, but one group has explored it. I’ll find the info
[21:32] <niel_barcelona> in spain we have “derecho de rebelion” they make a great job and some people want them to make the ONE demand
[21:32] <shomon> ah at the bottom of the link I sent is the name: Charter of the Culture Forum of Barcelona for Innovation, Creativity and Access to Knowledge but there are other groups resulting from the arab spring, seeking legitimacy for assemblies.




[21:35] <niel_barcelona> so we keep it as an option to propose to the assembly and we create an international working group to sophisticate the proposal? “global demand” working group?
[21:35] <shomon> niel_barcelona, +
[21:36] <orsan_ams> +
[21:36] <bruno_napoli> +
[21:37] <niel_barcelona> their is a group inactive since few months https://n-1.cc/pg/groups/475346/common-principles-global-consensus/ are you agree to recuprate it?
as part of our project, I can change the name for “global demand” and put this discussion, also I put it as a subgroup of “15M global strike”, ok? the forum works like a mailing list, if you join thye group you will receive all the discussions
[21:38] <shomon> fractal fingers + 😉
[21:39] <orsan_ams> or ‘people’s global governance’ working group that must be linked with global assemblies and social network for 99%
[21:40] <djdeli> +
[21:40] <shomon> self-governance?
[21:40] <shomon> but +
[21:40] <djdeli> even better +
[21:40] <orsan_ams> direct governance
[21:40] <orsan_ams> +
[21:40] <orsan_ams> self
[21:40] <orsan_ams> global self-governance
[21:41] <shomon> just because someone might say “who are these “people” governing me?!”
[21:41] <shomon> but they can choose their own name when they meet 🙂
[21:41] <orsan_ams> the think is we dont demand this we create this new sovernigty of the peoples
[21:41] <djdeli> glabal is quite a loaded word. im not sure we should go too deeply into demands. Demand Real Democracy

[21:42] <niel_barcelona> ok, just to finish with the text, the chronology: May 1: unite, May 12: Occupy, May 15: strike?
[21:43] <orsan_ams> yes, that is greatly thought of
[21:43] <djdeli> Not sure about using the word occupy, may isolate some people. while occupy is a buzz word in the press in a lot of places it has a lot of disenters. If people are involved in the occupy movement they can occupy if not just act
[21:43] <orsan_ams> ++++ assemble, camp, swarm
[21:44] <radleft> Assemble/assembly is always good.
[21:44] <niel_barcelona> act or protest?
[21:44] <djdeli> ACT
[21:44] <orsan_ams> anyway the way the date problem is solved is good, strategical
[21:45] <radleft> The unite date is May1.
[21:46] <niel_barcelona> yes radleft we have to make our possible to unitre the 1, and from there the peoples assembly will decide in a ga how they continue the fight, of course the first intervenant during the assembly will be the working group with concrete actions and alternative projects
[21:47] <radleft> For the US we can also unite around why May 1st in International Labor day. We can use this to educate.
[21:47] <niel_barcelona> educate also with the assembly, that the project 🙂
[21:48] <niel_barcelona> the unions or the workers or the students or the neighborhood or the people of your building have to know this way to self-organize ourselves
[21:48] <niel_barcelona> the unions or the workers or the students or the neighborhood or the people of your building have to know this way to self-organize ourselves
[21:50] <radleft> May 1st: http://encyclopedia.chicagohistory.org/pages/571.html
[21:53] <niel_barcelona> well we go for may 1: unite (ga), may 12: act (demonstration/occupations), may 15: strike
[21:53] <djdeli> I’m happy to action livestream interaction for the days concerned. We should start a project so everyone realises the international nature of these actions
[21:53] <niel_barcelona> yeah we will create more groups later, livestream, webteam, designer, video… after the final proposal and in next meetings, we have five month 🙂

[21:43] <niel_barcelona> there is also the option to promote the bank transfer day the 5 with a big international attention. do we include the bank transfer day on the may 5 as part of the proposal ?
its also about transition and alternative project. and its a direct kick to the financial dictatorship
[21:55] <radleft> Previous one went VERY well. There were more transfers this last Nov, than in all of 2010. 600,000 in 2010, 650,000 in Nov.
[21:55] <orsan_ams> that seems to much now to me and can be only realise after people convinced on the real concrete alternatives, i agree on the importance
it should stay i think but stress needs to be on the 1,12,15th
ok great. we can collect translations there as well?
[21:58] <bruno_napoli> + for the 5th
[21:58] <niel_barcelona> yeah im in contact with the people of bank transfer day (us) and moveyourmoney (uk) and they like the project to do it every month, we can create an international working group just about this action (stat info, web, video…) later?


Collective work
21H30 (60Min) Process to organize the debate in Rome
January 14 afternoon: Strategies of the movement
January 15 morning: Labor Meeting
+ Integration of the new technologies for more participation.


[22:00] <niel_barcelona> so quickly: agoraroma, people from here go there? or do you have one member of your local movement who go there? we cannot favorize the european people so maybe we can invite the other continent to organize one too in the same time or virtual connected with rome, there will be a streaming, may be our group can manage a chat like this one to integrate the other people like this everybody will can make a proposal, or we can invite everybody to send proposals to squares and we will present them in the meeting. we are like ten people as I know just from bcn, without the walkers of course. I know people from spain, france, belgium, uk, and germany going there and italy of course
14 strategy against the debt https://www.facebook.com/events/279354682121836/ but the 15?
[22:13] <shomon> morning: assembly on work, all workers of factories in trouble will be invited
we will speak particularly about a general strike
[22:18] <niel_barcelona> there is three marchs, the big one from brussels and those which left the g20 divided in two marchs because when they reach 25 people they divide the group
[22:19] <bruno_napoli> The same march that left Madrid to Brussels is still walking?
[22:20] <niel_barcelona> yeah but now they are in another world, they made the transition ^^
there is also the people who did the march and now they are like “on the road” to start march in germany, france…
[22:02] <bruno_napoli> I’ll be there

[22:05] <djdeli> http://www.facebook.com/events/337068492974144/?ref=ts I have had admin of this group contact me asking for more details on international action, anyone from the US want to action keeping them updated. don’t see a point in calling a strike on a holiday
[22:21] <shomon> mayday is a great word – it also means “emergency”
[22:21] <djdeli> yeah may is a pretty fantastic month
[22:21] <niel_barcelona> ah i forget! about the name do we keep 15M Global Strike, transition strike. strike 2.0, may day strike…?
[22:22] <bruno_napoli> There is some confusion. Some people are already using  “12M”
[22:24] <radleft> Djdeli: I’d like the contact for OccupyMAYDAY please.
[22:24] <niel_barcelona> i like may day but we need a S
[22:24] <djdeli> Ok
[22:24] <radleft> 1STMAY.
[22:25] <bruno_napoli> I’d go for “15M Global Strike”… or maybe “15M Transition Strike”… We must put emphasis on transition…
[22:26] <shomon> but wouldn’t use of 15m alienate some OWS folks or people from other movements?
[22:27] <shomon> hmm global awakening? or global wake-up? anyway… no problem
[22:29] <niel_barcelona> ok we keep the global and everybody can chose his own local one, its coherent with the proposal, of course nothing is closed and everybody can propose a name and try to reach consensus in a next meeting